Ethics of Wonging

[sagefr0g]

....... There is sometimes a fine line between taking advantage of something (or someone) legally and conning them illegally, but it is a very important distinction to make. ...

-Sonny-

sounds like a good time to ponder the ethics of wonging in. as i understand it there is some degree of negative affect on the resident players. the jury is still out on this matter as far as i'm concerned. but i do wonder.....
anyone have any thoughts on this issue?

 

[Sonny]

I thought it would be good to start this as a new thread.

sounds like a good time to ponder the ethics of wonging in. as i understand it there is some degree of negative affect on the resident players.

That's right. I think the effect can be up to .15% in some cases:

http://www.qfit.com/card-counting-ebc.htm

Now if you know that you're Wonging in on a fellow counter you might feel a bit guilty, but I wouldn't worry about it too much. I mean, he can Woning out too, he just prefers not to. The loss in EV from a "rouge" backcounter (as well as random ploppies) is just the cost of playing every hand.

-Sonny-

 

[sagefr0g]

I thought it would be good to start this as a new thread.



That's right. I think the effect can be up to .15% in some cases:

http://www.qfit.com/card-counting-ebc.htm

Now if you know that you're Wonging in on a fellow counter you might feel a bit guilty, but I wouldn't worry about it too much. I mean, he can Woning out too, he just prefers not to. The loss in EV from a "rouge" backcounter (as well as random ploppies) is just the cost of playing every hand.

-Sonny-

thank you Sonny. so i guess one might look at it as a competition for the house's value offered and we all are free to choose the approach that we take. if our approach is more sophisticated than our ploppy friends well.... se la vee... lol thanks again. i guess sometimes being an AP or trying to be lol is like living in a vacume and it helps to share ideas on all manner of things so as to get a better handle on it all. lol

 

[Automatic Monkey]

There are a couple of ways to look at it. Being we consume fewer cards at higher counts, we help the player infinitesimally when we play at all, and we hurt them slightly more than that when we Wong in/out.

On the other hand, I assume that when a ploppy asks your advice, you give a Basic Strategy answer, and given the skill of the typical player a simple Basic Strategy lesson will save them more money than you could possibly take with your Wongery.

So if you feel bad about Wonging, tell someone to hit that 12 vs. 2 and that A7 vs. 10, and you will have given them back far more than you have taken.

 

[mdlbj]

Pardon my english but F*** them. Its about money, not about making friends.

sounds like a good time to ponder the ethics of wonging in. as i understand it there is some degree of negative affect on the resident players. the jury is still out on this matter as far as i'm concerned. but i do wonder.....
anyone have any thoughts on this issue?

 

[EasyRhino]

Pardon my english but F*** them. Its about money, not about making friends.

I generally try to be a nice guy, but when it comes to wonging, or eating more cards in a good count, I agree.

And the few times I've been with another counter at the table I generally found uncomfortable anyway... but if the counts good I'll play as many hands as they're playing, and then I'll try to find a different table.

 

[suicyco maniac]

Ploppies go to the casinos expecting to lose. Wongers help to make sure that happens. Realistically you are doing them a favor and helping them get on with their lives quicker.

 

[moo321]

Pardon my english but F*** them. Its about money, not about making friends.

Haha. Totally true. Don't play at a casino if you don't want to lose.

 

[rogue1]

I really don't have time to feel guilty about Wonging in and out right now as it takes my full time feeling guilty about Adam eating the apple and all.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Haha. Totally true. Don't play at a casino if you don't want to lose.

Still, what a Wonger costs them is small compared to what they gain from us being there. I will always tell them the correct BS play if they ask, don't you? I've even had whales tip me after giving good advice. So I consider Wonging in to be a way of sharing the casino's wealth with the public while increasing mine.

It doesn't work that way when the other player is an AP, because he already knows the correct play.

 

[21forme]

A couple of points of view:

1. By wonging, you're actually slowing the game, so the ploppy loses more slowly. The question is which predominates.

2. There are no ethics involved. This is a sleazy business where the house encourages drunkenness to facilitate the the fleecing and reserves the right to shuffle at any time.