Etiquette with other counters at the table

[Automatic Monkey]

If you are playing and there is another obvious counter at the table, is it considered sporting to spread to two hands on good counts if he is not? And does it make a difference who was there first, or who is playing a larger unit?

 

[suicyco maniac]

I find....

...it very offensive if another counter wongs into my high counts knowing I am a counter..I will not play with another counter at my table for several reasons....but sometimes it happens you don't notice the other counter til it is too late in that case I usually finish out the high count and walk away when it is thru. Just my 2 cents...also I would think whoever was there first should "own" the table SM

 

[Felix Rue-de-Guerre]

What I think...

... when you notice someone is a fellow AP. Share the high count that gave him away, then wink at him and collect your chips.

-Felix

 

[phantom007]

Urinate on the Tree like a Dog......

and mark your territory, or in this case the legs of the table and chairs.

Seriously, two CC's at the same table will usually get both of you caught pretty quickly. Same 2 or more players always take ins. at the same time, raise/lower, sit out, etc. becomes pretty obvious.

Etiquette should be that first in holds the table. If you sit down, and later realize there was another CC ahead of you, is best to politely move on.

When possible, I try specifically to choose "No mid-shoe entry" tables just so others do not wong-in on my good counts.

phantom007.

 

[Sonny]

If the shoe fits... *LINK*

> When possible, I try specifically to choose "No mid-shoe entry" tables just
> so others do not wong-in on my good counts.

That is a good plan.

Sure, I feel bad about Wonging into someone else's hot shoe (or deck) when I find out there was another counter already there. However, if the table allows mid-shoe entry then the other counter shouldn't have been there in a negative count in the first place!

-Sonny-

 

[Tom]

Not many counters out there.

I could not tell you how many times I've thought the guy across the table might be a card counter only to find out later(99%of the time) he was nothing but a BIG ploppy. I guess what I'm trying to say is it is difficult to determine who is who and it takes some quite some time to figure it out. In the mean time I worry about nothing and just play my game,this includes spreading to 2 hands and so forth. I surely dont need a mistaken identity or un-called for stress to f#*k my game up. If a counter happens to get in my way..........sorry. The game is already difficult to beat as is. I only leave a shoe when it goes bad,REGARDLESS of who is who.

I know, I'm ruthless.

Tom

 

[suicyco maniac]

I was talking....

...About simply using a known AP as your own personal spotter without their consent...I agree if you stumble across another counter after backcounting a shoe you have just as much right to share that high count but move on when it is over and leave the other player be...SM

 

[TwuntyWun]

Not only rude, but risky.

If you were to do this to me once, I would be annoyed, but give you the benefit of the doubt. If you repeated the feat, and I now knew what you were doing, I would be very tempted to end your session and possibly your play at that store for evermore. This very trick has been the reason for the only times I have ever been tempted to out another counter. I have actually hinted to a counter that I would do so, and in another instance, even led one to believe I was in the process of doing so. I had a good laugh when he quickly left my favorite table as I was discreetly motioning toward him while having a serious and disapproving discussion about the color of the new table felt with his PC. (And no, I have never actually outed anyone, but there are one or two guys out there who have used up all my good will. If there is a next time...)

TW

 

[Automatic Monkey]

This particular case

In the case I have in mind I was Wonging around some shoes. When I Wong around I leave on a low count and go to the next uncrowded table without paying too much attention to who is there, not quite the same as Wonging in using a known counter as your indicator. So if I meet another counter it's just random. Now keep in mind I feel bad about Wonging out even on ploppies, and the same way with a counter, but I know that a counter has the same opportunity to Wong out as I do and his problem if he chooses not to use it. My only concern was the card-eating effect of spreading to two hands. This is a required part of my strategy due to bankroll limitations (keeps swings in check) and I know it hurts the ploppies just as much as it does a counter, but not to a very large degree. Maybe I'm just being overly sensitive.

 

[TwuntyWun]

Sharing the tables w/ civilians

AM

I know what you mean about feeling bad wonging out. A few times of going to the restroom and leaving a happy table (even the civilians enjoyed the benefits of the high count as the dealer busted hand after hand and they all picked up on the wisdom of playing conservatively when the dealer is busting) only to return to sullen faces and low stacks all around can get to you. I got over it when I realized that they were sullen and angry *at me* for leaving and *gasp!* CHANGING THE FLOW!

I actually once kept a very pleasant elderly civilian woman at my table as the count turned positive. She had been losing through the beginning of the shoe, and got up to leave just when the advantage turned in our favor. I motioned for her to stay, "Give it a few more hands. The cards are bound to change!" "You think so?" "Yeah, stay with me awhile. I have a good feeling." So, most APs would call me an idiot. The lady played her progression, and I spread to two hands through a monster count and we both made some money. Call me a sucker, but I felt good about that. This is the only time I have done this, but it still makes me smile thinking of her joyously coloring up at the end of that shoe. "OK...NOW we'll BOTH go!"

I no longer sweat wonging in/out on people, or them doing the same to me. Yes, when I know a counter has wonged in on me I get a little annoyed-- but I know I've done the same to others. Innocently wonging in is not the same as letting someone else do all the work for you and then jumping in and basically stealing part of his paycheck.

As for hurting the civilians with spreading/wonging, etc. I stopped worrying about that about the time I stopped being able to get a heads up game. I sit down and ***whooooosh*** it's full of civilians. I get up and go to another empty table and **whooooosh** they follow. Forget about telling them you like to play alone, they don't care. If they see someone winning, they think you're good luck and will haunt you to your dying day... civilian turned ploppy before your eyes. Yelling at you for splitting 9s, crticizing just about everything, trying to turn the rest of the table--and the dealer--against you!! So, I don't worry about it and spread and wong away when given the opportunity. Just like a counter can wong out any time she likes, a civilian can learn to count any time he likes.

As for spreading to two hands. If I discover I have joined a game that another counter is working, though, I believe spreading to two hands is in poor form if he is not doing so. I'm not sure why exactly, but this just feels rude to me! To play through the count and leave seems to be the right thing to do.

TW