European No-hole-card Rule in KO system

[ChrisV]

Hi,

I'm a counting newb, learning the Knockout system, not serious about it, just want to feel like I could play BJ without burning money.

My local game is an 8-deck shoe game which includes the European no-hole-card (NHC) rule (i.e. there is no dealer hole card, so no initial check for blackjack, and dealer takes all double and split bets if they blackjack). I have the KO book but it doesn't deal with this rule.

Since this is an 8 deck game, thankfully I don't have to deal with certain strategy adjustments, but it does recommend doubling 11 vs A, and 10 vs 10 and A, when the count gets to +3 or better. Doubling 11 vs 10 is already assumed to be part of basic strategy, but it isn't vs NHC. Should I just skip all this vs NHC, or maybe move to doubling 11 vs 10 but skip the rest?

Thanks!
Chris

 

[Mimosine]

ChrisV:

first familiarize yourself perfectly with BS for NHC.
if you can't find an explicit set of index plays for NHC with KO (which i don't think you will), then search this site and the web for the index values using hi-lo. the values for hi-lo should be a very good approximation for what values you should be using for KO.

M.

 

[jack.jackson]

Hi,

I'm a counting newb, learning the Knockout system, not serious about it, just want to feel like I could play BJ without burning money.

My local game is an 8-deck shoe game which includes the European no-hole-card (NHC) rule (i.e. there is no dealer hole card, so no initial check for blackjack, and dealer takes all double and split bets if they blackjack). I have the KO book but it doesn't deal with this rule.

Since this is an 8 deck game, thankfully I don't have to deal with certain strategy adjustments, but it does recommend doubling 11 vs A, and 10 vs 10 and A, when the count gets to +3 or better. Doubling 11 vs 10 is already assumed to be part of basic strategy, but it isn't vs NHC. Should I just skip all this vs NHC, or maybe move to doubling 11 vs 10 but skip the rest?

Thanks!
Chris

It actually pays to learn the necessary adjustments for this rule. Your advantage is Decreased by .13 when played CORRECTLY!
1. Never or split or Double against an Ace,(2) Never Double against a ten,(3) Never Split 88s against ten, However continue to split Aces as usual.
_________________________________________
Q. Just because a/the dealer doesnt take a Hole-Card, Does this Automatically mean you will Always lose Additional Wagers???

 

[SystemsTrader]

Learn the BS for ENHC. Those moves will take precedence over the index moves like doubling 10v10 or doubling 11vA because you will lose both bets if the dealer has blackjack. Remember those index plays show up at high counts when the dealer also has even a greater chance of getting blackjack as well. Also add one to your key count, so against 8 deck you will now raise your bet at -5 instead of -6. The pivot remains the same as it is a constant.

 

[ChrisV]

Thanks, so you're saying these adjustments are no good vs NHC? Intuitively it seems to me like doubling 11 vs 10 would be good at high count, since the increased chance of dealer natural is pretty small compared to the increased chance of landing a 21. Doubling anything vs ace seems bad. I'm not sure about 10 vs 10 though.

Unfortunately I haven't been able to locate an index chart for Hi-Lo vs NHC. I already know basic strategy vs NHC.

 

[k_c]

A-A v A ENHC

It actually pays to learn the necessary adjustments for this rule. Your advantage is Decreased by .13 when played CORRECTLY!
1. Never or split or Double against an Ace,(2) Never Double against a ten,(3) Never Split 88s against ten, However continue to split Aces as usual.
_________________________________________
Q. Just because a/the dealer doesnt take a Hole-Card, Does this Automatically mean you will Always lose Additional Wagers???

Actually it is not right to spilt A-A v A for the ENHC rule unless you are also allowed to hit split aces. By ENHC I mean your doubles and splits ARE in jeopardy of losing to a dealer blackjack.

k_c

 

[ChrisV]

Actually it is not right to spilt A-A v A

1. Never split or Double against an Ace

 

[k_c]

Quote:
Actually it is not right to spilt A-A v A

Quote:
1. Never split or Double against an Ace

It IS right to split A-A v A even if you are allowed to hit split aces even if the rule is no peek. If you can't hit split aces, right, don't split.

k_c