Fighting & losing 6-5 battle - Seeking advice

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OnePitCritter

Active Member
Hallo Mr. Mayor and everyone,

It has been eons since I posted anything here but I have enjoyed reading the posts.

This is my current challenge. I was hoping someone could weigh in. It appears that 6-5 may be coming to my little part of the gaming world. I do not think that I can prevent it as a lowly PitCritter. What I think I can do is try to implement some more player friendly rules to "improve" the game. I am not worth a D@mn at the math end of this.

What I am wondering is what are the player advantage percentage changes in the game (6-5) if I add rules such as:

LS
ES
DAS
SS17
Resplit Aces 4-times/ or perhaps rehit Split Aces

I can find the percentage changes for rule variations from standard (BJ pays 3-2). My gut feeling is that the percentage charts for advantage changes do not apply to this game?

I must be honest, I have done almost no homework on this. I understand if I cannot get any help on my dilemma. Helping the enemy just does not make alot of sense. ;O)

Here is the bizarre end of this I have customer surveys asking for this game. (We currently only offer multi-deck BJ.)

Our current game is:

DAS, HS17, Ins., no ReSplit Aces, 6 deck

Thank You in advance for any responses.

Sincerely,

OnePitCritter
 
Automatic Monkey

Automatic Monkey

Banned
Deal down to the last card

All of the rules you mentioned would be beneficial. Dealing down to the last card would be a big hit aming unskilled players because it would set the game apart from others. It would also be a big hit among advantage players. So it would be a win-win situation for the AP's and the house.
 
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suicyco maniac

Well-Known Member
Ploppies

Many times I have seen ploppies complain when a deck is dealt all the way to the bottom...they seem to think it is some sort of way for the house to cheat when in fact it is truly the only fair way to deal the game. SM
 
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OnePitCritter

Active Member
A Monkey & S Maniac

Thank you for responding,

I didn't actually think of dealing to the last card. On first thought I would be inclined to agree with SM. Also I don't see that being possible.

Am I correct in my idea that this is such a different game that my current percentage charts for advantage changes do not apply?

It is interesting to me that my customer comment cards are willing to accept 6-5 in exchange for single deck. :O(

Also, this is being "Pitched" by my competition. If you are wondering why I care, The competition is where I get to play.

Thank you Again,

OnePitCritter
 
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stainless steel rat

Well-Known Member
maybe

changing the BJ payout only changes things for one specific set of first two cards. An A-10. All other options still affect the game in the same way. For example, DAS (double after splitting), DA2 (double any 2 card hand), RSA (resplit aces) and so forth only apply if the initial two cards are not a natural.

The problem is, changing the natural payoff from 3:2 to 6:2 has such a negative impact on overall EV for the player, all of the "good" options you can throw in won't come close to offsetting the loss caused by 6:5. Even ploppies are going to notice that they are losing their money faster at 6:5, eventually, and stop playing the games. Dealing to the bottom would certainly help make the game more attractive. But changing the payoff for a natural to 3:2 would be even better. :)
 
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Victoria

Well-Known Member
this will work

But you will not do it.

If the player busts and then the dealer busts, it is a push. That should more than make up for 6/5, and probably have a nice edge off the top with just a few player friendly rules.
Just dreaming of the impossible.

Victoria
 
G

gross

Member
Equalizing 6:5 bj

There is an excellent table showing the effect of all common variations on house advantage on blackjack at www.wizardofodds.com under his blackjack (variations) section. Allowing an automatic winner for a "5 Card Charlie" will offset (+1.46%) the 6:5 blackjack rule(-1.39%). The other rule changes you mention don't even come close. The 5 Card Charlie rule is an attention getter which would likely fill your tables with ploppies and knowledgeable players.
 
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toddler

Well-Known Member
Want to make sure I understand...

OPC,

You mentioned 6:5 SD was coming to your 'burg and you have no say as to the 6:5 payout on naturals. From your post, I gather *you* can implement rule changes. This is more curiosity than anything else... who actually sets the rules for blackjack games? I thought the Casino Manager or VP Casino Operations, whoever, sets the BJ rules and procedures and the games supervisors and dealers follow their decisions.

Does your casino allow the table game supervisors to set the rules???

Regardless, I believe your employer needs to grow some cojones and offer real SD blackjack. They can either be a leader or a follower.

toddler
 
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stainless steel rat

Well-Known Member
good idea

That's a workable plan. I have played once or twice where a casino was doing that as a promotion. Of course it modifies perfect BS a bit, but that would be a playable game... You could even bet big on those big negative counts, factoring in the 5-card-charlie win. :)
 
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tywebb1976

New Member
new game

My local casino just added two single deck 6:5 games. Of course, they are both unplayable NO DAS, Double only 9 and 10, not sure what the penetration will be. But just for curiosity sakes (mind you, this won't be done) more as a conversation piece among friends, is there a point in this game, where it would be advantageous to be double down on a blackjack?

And if you disregard the top question, what kind of bet spreadsheet would you need to play this game effectivey, if one was to tackle it? Min is $10 on weekdays.
 
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OnePitCritter

Active Member
Toddler

The company I work for has a tremendous amount of respect for the ideas of our front-line staff. If it is possible to increase play and therefore profit to a level to off-set a lower house advantage, they will generally go with what ever is the best game for the players.

This community is excellent at analyzing game variations. I was looking for some potential "Ballons" to float. Whether they would be implemented or not?? I have no idea. I was just hoping for some ideas.

Sincerely

OnePitCritter
 
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OnePitCritter

Active Member
Thank you to everyone

I appreciate all of your responses. It seems that the 6-5 illness is infecting Casinos everywhere.

Currently hand-held BJ games are not available in my neighborhood. It is at least nice to have some ideas to attempt to off-set the insane "Vig" if it does come.

Sincerely

OnePitCritter
 
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toddler

Well-Known Member
OPC...

The company I work for has a tremendous amount of respect for the ideas of our front-line staff.

This has to be encouraging and, based on what I've read so far about casino management, an exception rather than the rule. If this is the case, could you and your peers lobby hard for 3:2 naturals on single deck? Again, does your company want to be a leader or a follower? I would encourage your company to at least try real SD rather than fake SD. If it doesn't work out financially, then either switch or remove it. At least you can say you tried.

If it is possible to increase play and therefore profit to a level to offset a lower house advantage, they will generally go with what ever is the best game for the players.

Why not increase play by generating more hands per hour? If you dealt deeper in your games, say to one deck or less in your shoes, wouldn't that accomplish your objective? Offering deep penetration and more hands per hour should increase your drop as well as your hold. And don't be concerned with counters. Let 'em have at it.

If you do read these boards, you should know counters are insignificant to the net profit line. Just look at the latest figures from LV mega-emporiums. On your single deck, I'd offer at least RO7, S17 and 3:2 naturals. Sure, it's beatable, but it would bring in all level of player and possibly keep the tables well stocked. Just look at those joints which do offer this game. Recently, I watched a player loose $3500 in 20 minutes at an SD game with deep penetration and surrender. Bad players loose no matter what game is offered.

This community is excellent at analyzing game variations. I was looking for some potential "Ballons" to float. Whether they would be implemented or not? I have no idea. I was just hoping for some ideas.

Well, it's looks as though you've received a flotilla here. If your management really does listen to front line employees, which I believe they should, then based on the information expressed here and at other locations, you should have plenty of ammunition for a convincing frontal assault.

Keep us informed on what happens. And best to you.

toddler
 
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