Automatic Monkey
Banned
It's called a home equity line of credit. In other words, I mortgaged my house to play blackjack.
Finally got my green chip Kelly bankroll
- Thread starter Automatic Monkey
- Start date
I agree
I hope you were kidding, Automatic. Even at relatively low interest rates, it is not wise to "bet the house." At the green chip level, it's pretty easy to lose $5k or $10k (or more) fairly quickly, if you are spreading correctly. And if you can't play at that level without spreading correctly, you shouldn't be playing at that level. Red flags all over the place.
I hope you were kidding, Automatic. Even at relatively low interest rates, it is not wise to "bet the house." At the green chip level, it's pretty easy to lose $5k or $10k (or more) fairly quickly, if you are spreading correctly. And if you can't play at that level without spreading correctly, you shouldn't be playing at that level. Red flags all over the place.
Automatic Monkey
Banned
I hear you
Well, I got a checkbook, where I can write checks and pay back the money at any time, so interest isn't much of an issue. Now according to my sims I have less than a 0.01% risk of ruin which would be considered AAA rated paper by any rating agency. Either I believe in the math of counting, or I don't.
Anyway, I'm playing my game and I'm well into the black, with enough cash on hand that there is a less than a 5% chance of me ever having to touch the part of my bankroll that is my house. So if that time ever comes, I will reconsider and reflect on the advice offered here. At that point I might be too disgusted to continue playing! But I do now feel a lot less stress when playing, knowing I am betting at Kelly.
Well, I got a checkbook, where I can write checks and pay back the money at any time, so interest isn't much of an issue. Now according to my sims I have less than a 0.01% risk of ruin which would be considered AAA rated paper by any rating agency. Either I believe in the math of counting, or I don't.
Anyway, I'm playing my game and I'm well into the black, with enough cash on hand that there is a less than a 5% chance of me ever having to touch the part of my bankroll that is my house. So if that time ever comes, I will reconsider and reflect on the advice offered here. At that point I might be too disgusted to continue playing! But I do now feel a lot less stress when playing, knowing I am betting at Kelly.
zengrifter
Banned
I disagree
A home equity loan is an excellent adjunct to a skilled counter's BR, as is casino 'credit' zg
A home equity loan is an excellent adjunct to a skilled counter's BR, as is casino 'credit' zg
Stealth Bomber
Well-Known Member
Agree with your disagree
A home equity line of credit (H.E.L.O.C) is a really hot set-up. Everyone should have one up to max line on their home for many reasons. They cost very little to set up and cost nothing except only when they are being used. They are also called a 'revolving line of credit'. Meaning it is flexable and can be paid down to 0 at any time then ran back up again. You can even have a plastic credit card attached to it, resulting in tax deductable interest.
A home equity line of credit (H.E.L.O.C) is a really hot set-up. Everyone should have one up to max line on their home for many reasons. They cost very little to set up and cost nothing except only when they are being used. They are also called a 'revolving line of credit'. Meaning it is flexable and can be paid down to 0 at any time then ran back up again. You can even have a plastic credit card attached to it, resulting in tax deductable interest.
I Disagree with your Disagree
Not to disparage Automatic Monkey in any way, I don't think he has the track record to qualify as the quality of player you are talking about. I've heard of very good players who have had long losing streaks. That money still has to be paid back (with interest)and I would think some people would then overbet trying to get back their initial losses and then get in a deeper hole. No one answer is right for everyone, but I think a good general rule is not to play with money that you can't afford to lose.
Not to disparage Automatic Monkey in any way, I don't think he has the track record to qualify as the quality of player you are talking about. I've heard of very good players who have had long losing streaks. That money still has to be paid back (with interest)and I would think some people would then overbet trying to get back their initial losses and then get in a deeper hole. No one answer is right for everyone, but I think a good general rule is not to play with money that you can't afford to lose.
Wrong
The interest on a HELOC, by definition (in most cases)is tax deductible. It has nothing to with a credit card. In fact, cerdit card interest is longer tax deductible.
And, as in my answer to ZG below, it's not wise to play BJ with money that you can't afford to lose.
The interest on a HELOC, by definition (in most cases)is tax deductible. It has nothing to with a credit card. In fact, cerdit card interest is longer tax deductible.
And, as in my answer to ZG below, it's not wise to play BJ with money that you can't afford to lose.
zengrifter
Banned
I don't advocate...
...playing with money that a counter can't afford to lose. I do advocate any method that increases BR liquidity. zg
...playing with money that a counter can't afford to lose. I do advocate any method that increases BR liquidity. zg
HELOC
Home Equity Lines of Credit are great. I have a completely untapped one for $75K. I don't use it to play Kelly, however, I would not say it was unwise to do so under the right circumstances. For a professional or high-level player, it is free liquidity without having to have money sitting around in the bank (or house).
As I consider myself an amatuer I won't tap it. Maybe in ten years or so, but I'd rather have the up front cash, which I can build up anyways.
Feep
Home Equity Lines of Credit are great. I have a completely untapped one for $75K. I don't use it to play Kelly, however, I would not say it was unwise to do so under the right circumstances. For a professional or high-level player, it is free liquidity without having to have money sitting around in the bank (or house).
As I consider myself an amatuer I won't tap it. Maybe in ten years or so, but I'd rather have the up front cash, which I can build up anyways.
Feep
Margin as the playing bankroll
Don't bet with money you cannot afford to lose; don't invest in stocks if you cannot stomach a 50% loss...
I use home equity loans to buy cars (used that are then kept for 10 years) to take the tax writeoff for the interest; I use stock margin as the total playing bankroll. Over time, equities historically prvide a 15% annual ROI. With after tax margin interest rates of 2-3%, it makes sense to stay invested all the time. Sizing max bets to 1/1000 of portfolio keeps margin below 20% (200 max bets) and prevents margin calls even with major equity price decreases.
wc21
Don't bet with money you cannot afford to lose; don't invest in stocks if you cannot stomach a 50% loss...
I use home equity loans to buy cars (used that are then kept for 10 years) to take the tax writeoff for the interest; I use stock margin as the total playing bankroll. Over time, equities historically prvide a 15% annual ROI. With after tax margin interest rates of 2-3%, it makes sense to stay invested all the time. Sizing max bets to 1/1000 of portfolio keeps margin below 20% (200 max bets) and prevents margin calls even with major equity price decreases.
wc21
the real solution is to sell your home
Real estate prices are at all time highes in the west and east coasts.
If one is in Canada or the midwest then stay put because of
ultra slow gains in those places.
Cash out my friend. We have never seen these high gains
in real estate before and now is the time to sell.
The foreclosures rates are going to start creeping up.
The interest rates are going to start moving up in 3 weeks
too.
Then go on your 21 trips.
As far as a loan don't do it, do it with a low interest
credit card instead. As loans have heavy closing fees and credit
cards do not.
Many of my friends have done this and it worked out
quite well.But besides being great
players their discipline is the key,which would could go into
in depth.
Real estate prices are at all time highes in the west and east coasts.
If one is in Canada or the midwest then stay put because of
ultra slow gains in those places.
Cash out my friend. We have never seen these high gains
in real estate before and now is the time to sell.
The foreclosures rates are going to start creeping up.
The interest rates are going to start moving up in 3 weeks
too.
Then go on your 21 trips.
As far as a loan don't do it, do it with a low interest
credit card instead. As loans have heavy closing fees and credit
cards do not.
Many of my friends have done this and it worked out
quite well.But besides being great
players their discipline is the key,which would could go into
in depth.
Stealth Bomber
Well-Known Member
Smart money
I keep hearing this:
Don't play with money that we can't afford to lose.
This is a very good rule to abide by. However, borrowed money is NOT necessarily money we cannot afford. How do we define money that we cannot lose? Think of it this way; Does it make better sense to have our BJ money in a special bank account earning .75% or does it make better sense to have it stored in our mortgage saving us 3.5% to 8% with a tax benie?
I've seen times where I borrowed $ at 18% to buy real estate. Now that real estate is worth many times more than was paid.
If the math works, why not borrow for anything that makes more money?
P.S. We can get a plastic card that is attached to some HELOCs that can be used to buy anything a credit card can buy and the interest is tax deductible because the HELOC is attached to our home.
I keep hearing this:
Don't play with money that we can't afford to lose.
This is a very good rule to abide by. However, borrowed money is NOT necessarily money we cannot afford. How do we define money that we cannot lose? Think of it this way; Does it make better sense to have our BJ money in a special bank account earning .75% or does it make better sense to have it stored in our mortgage saving us 3.5% to 8% with a tax benie?
I've seen times where I borrowed $ at 18% to buy real estate. Now that real estate is worth many times more than was paid.
If the math works, why not borrow for anything that makes more money?
P.S. We can get a plastic card that is attached to some HELOCs that can be used to buy anything a credit card can buy and the interest is tax deductible because the HELOC is attached to our home.
Rob McGarvey
Well-Known Member
Your Confidence
is showing! ;> I picked up a new home a year ago and the same home is selling for 50K more right now. It takes 15K for another downpayment for a new house which will take a year to build. When it is complete it will be worth around $25K more than the depo I put on it. Your money, others doing all the work for you. Best deal. People like to buy a new house and move into it, not wait a year to do so. That is a good return on investment. There is a magic # for a BJ BR related to % return expected and your ability to get the money on the felt, somewhere in the 30K 50K ballpark.
Worse case senario is you will lose everything. If you have $15US you are one of the top 8% richest people in the world. Then you'll have to coupon your ass back into the top 5%. ;>
PS Not all Canadian real estate prices are laging. Location location location is key, and the area I live in is one of those locations.
is showing! ;> I picked up a new home a year ago and the same home is selling for 50K more right now. It takes 15K for another downpayment for a new house which will take a year to build. When it is complete it will be worth around $25K more than the depo I put on it. Your money, others doing all the work for you. Best deal. People like to buy a new house and move into it, not wait a year to do so. That is a good return on investment. There is a magic # for a BJ BR related to % return expected and your ability to get the money on the felt, somewhere in the 30K 50K ballpark.
Worse case senario is you will lose everything. If you have $15US you are one of the top 8% richest people in the world. Then you'll have to coupon your ass back into the top 5%. ;>
PS Not all Canadian real estate prices are laging. Location location location is key, and the area I live in is one of those locations.
2nd Mortgage?
so cal real estate has just gone nuts last 3 months. nothing for sale. DON'T SELL. re-fi, whatever, but hang on to your property right now. I don't know about vegas, but riverside, orange, LA counties 25%-35% gain per year. higher in spots. Make $50k/yr just paying the mortgage.
So it just depends I guess on your retirement situation.
Unless you burn through it pretty quick and you live in the sticks, there will be more where that came from. IMHO.
so cal real estate has just gone nuts last 3 months. nothing for sale. DON'T SELL. re-fi, whatever, but hang on to your property right now. I don't know about vegas, but riverside, orange, LA counties 25%-35% gain per year. higher in spots. Make $50k/yr just paying the mortgage.
So it just depends I guess on your retirement situation.
Unless you burn through it pretty quick and you live in the sticks, there will be more where that came from. IMHO.
And what would happen
if the real estate you purchased with borrowed money at 18% went down in value? What happened to people who borrowed money to buy stocks during the stock market boom and then got margin calls when the market tanked? Every person's circumstances are different but, generally speaking, it's not a good idea to fund BJ activity with borrowed money. There are no guarantees in life, and especially in BJ, no matter how good of a player you are.
if the real estate you purchased with borrowed money at 18% went down in value? What happened to people who borrowed money to buy stocks during the stock market boom and then got margin calls when the market tanked? Every person's circumstances are different but, generally speaking, it's not a good idea to fund BJ activity with borrowed money. There are no guarantees in life, and especially in BJ, no matter how good of a player you are.
rob
Rob,
my friend bought a preconstruction in Vegas at the lake,and now
its almost build, the increase 25o,ooo, unreal, and if you keep it
two or more years the gain will be tax free.This gain would never
happen to this extent in Canada and the taxes would be 50%.wowza.
Canada has been appreciated at 4 %,vs CA. FL, NY,NV around 40%.
Rob,
my friend bought a preconstruction in Vegas at the lake,and now
its almost build, the increase 25o,ooo, unreal, and if you keep it
two or more years the gain will be tax free.This gain would never
happen to this extent in Canada and the taxes would be 50%.wowza.
Canada has been appreciated at 4 %,vs CA. FL, NY,NV around 40%.
Rob McGarvey
Well-Known Member
Nice
Anything that happens in Canada I have to multiply by 10 to figure out what is happening in America. ;> I think that is because we were forced to go metric for the good of humanity back in the 70's or something. We have lots more lake front properties, so they are not as scarse as hen's teeth are in the desert, so once again, location is key. We both have areas where the prop values are going down, etc. I'm sure there are spots in NY that have droped -40% too. 250K could be only a 5% increase in value. Better what out who moves in next door y'all. That can do more damage than a hurry cane.
Anything that happens in Canada I have to multiply by 10 to figure out what is happening in America. ;> I think that is because we were forced to go metric for the good of humanity back in the 70's or something. We have lots more lake front properties, so they are not as scarse as hen's teeth are in the desert, so once again, location is key. We both have areas where the prop values are going down, etc. I'm sure there are spots in NY that have droped -40% too. 250K could be only a 5% increase in value. Better what out who moves in next door y'all. That can do more damage than a hurry cane.