First post!! Cut Card question

[PonchoVilla]

I was playing with a guy the other night and he says he is TRYING to count a six deck shoe....and the house man is half decking him cutting 3 decks off of 6 and it is messing him up. Can I get some expert advice on this?

 

[avs21]

I am no expert, but this game isn't playable with only 50% pen on a 6-deck shoe for a CC.

 

[PonchoVilla]

Pen? please explain? Does it affect it?

 

[avs21]

Penetration is the amout of cards they will deal out before they shuffle. Example above only playing 3 out of 6 decks in a shoe will be 50% Pen. Penetration is the most important factor in how good a game is for a CC. Penetration won't affect you if your playing Basic Strategy. In your friends case I don't know why he kept playing that game.

 

[PonchoVilla]

Thanks, do casino's ever do this?

 

[zengrifter]

Penetration is the amout of cards they will deal out before they shuffle. Example above only playing 3 out of 6 decks in a shoe will be 50% Pen. Penetration is the most important factor in how good a game is for a CC. Penetration won't affect you if your playing Basic Strategy. In your friends case I don't know why he kept playing that game.

Sometimes a poor-pene shoe is VERY GOOD for shuffle-tracking -and- a shuffle-tracker would always want to place the cut card. zg

 

[avs21]

For 6 deck shoes I have never come across 50%, but I play mostly SD and DD games.

 

[Vytas]

Happened to me and the wife at Ellis Island, right after using a couple $25.00
match play coupons on good counts and winning. Soon as it happened we played a couple hands and left. Better safe than sorry.
Since then we've been working on shuffle tracking skills to counter the counter counter measures. (huh?). I guess we'll see, headin' to town on wednesday.
Regards
Vytas

 

[Mikeaber]

For 6 deck shoes I have never come across 50%, but I play mostly SD and DD games.

I have. 50% pen at 6D at Isle of Debris (Capris) in Kansas City. They give a whopping 40% pen on DD with $25 minimum! And, they actually have people playing it!

 

[shadroch]

I have. 50% pen at 6D at Isle of Debris (Capris) in Kansas City. They give a whopping 40% pen on DD with $25 minimum! And, they actually have people playing it!

If you are not counting,why not play a game like this.More shuffles means less hands played,more comp bang for your bet,no?

 

[Mikeaber]

If you are not counting,why not play a game like this.More shuffles means less hands played,more comp bang for your bet,no?

You're correct. I've been so focused on AP that I have to keep reminding myself there are others who would rather just play BS. I should have paid attention to the topic category.

 

[PonchoVilla]

The same guy, bet's in a very odd manner, I've never seen. One hand it's 10, then 2 hands at 25, then 1 hand at 200, then back to 25...? What is this method?

 

[Sonny]

The same guy, bet's in a very odd manner, I've never seen. One hand it's 10, then 2 hands at 25, then 1 hand at 200, then back to 25...? What is this method?

I can't way for sure without watching him play. He might be counting cards or he might just think he is. If he is playing a 6-deck game with 50% pen and not walking away from negative counts then I have a feeling he isn't a solid player yet. Also, the count in a 6-deck game with 50% pen wouldn't change very much so his bets should be the minimum almost all of the time. Even a decent 6-deck game will be neutral or negative about 75% of the time.

Such a wild betting patern makes me think he is using some sort of worthless progression system. I can't begin to tell you how many people I've seen who think (and even say!) that they are card counters but aren't. Maybe if the casino would watch him for a minute they would see that too. Maybe then they would give him 90% pen and let him loose his money even faster!

-Sonny-

 

[shadroch]

You're correct. I've been so focused on AP that I have to keep reminding myself there are others who would rather just play BS. I should have paid attention to the topic category.

ZG just told me,in another post,that playing a $10 shoe game for 5 hours has an expected loss value of $15.Considering that you'll most likely get a free meal out of most casinos with that type of play,its pretty understandable how someone would be happy investing the 20 or so hours needed to learn
BS,and not want to invest the hundreds of hours needed to get an edge as an AP.

 

[Mikeaber]

Shadroch, I tried to gracefully back down on my statement. My reply was intended to mention that I have come across 50% pen in a 6D game. I also mentioned a 40% DD game. As an AP, I stand by the futility of playing such games but for a non-AP, I said you were correct.

If a Basic Strategy player wishes to play for 5 hours, lose $15 and get a "free meal" and have a lot of fun, then the pen doesn't matter. Have fun!

 

[shadroch]

Mike,
I'm not aurguing with you,sorry if you got that impression.
Just be happy that those folks aren't playing 6-5 SD.