"Flow" anecdote

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Felix Rue-de-Guerre

Well-Known Member
I have an all time extreme case of ploppy 'Flow' worship that happened about a month ago.

Seat 6- Partially toothless redneck. Red flannel and overalls. A man truly out of his element in this inner-city casino.

3rd base- A fat inner-city woman.

When the dealer asked the redneck in seat 6 if he wanted a hit, the redneck asked the fat woman at 3rd base if SHE was going to hit. When she said yes, he told her "OK, then I'll stay". The problem was he was subconsciously tapping the felt while he was talking to her. He accidentally drew to 21.

He told the dealer he didn't want to hit. The dealer explained how he had tapped the felt, and drew to 21. I even spoke up and said: "Hey buddy, you got 21 there... if she looses just give her some of the money you'll win". But nope, he started an argument that lasted a few minutes, involved the pit, and eventually led to the forfeiture of his hit card to the woman at 3rd.

Unbelieveable! I was getting the worst verbal pommeling by the denizens of this hell-hole all night because of my 'stupid' plays like hitting A-7 against 10! I'm baffled! How could any play be worse than electively un-drawing from 21???!!!

I was actually starting make plays to tick them off in order to get rid of them (at a cost). But no, they feed on that crap! It makes them feel knowledgeable to confirm each other superstitions. Unfortunately, this was the single lowest minimum table in the house, and I didn't have enough with me to play at any other table without certain death. I can't wait to get to Vegas where this stuff is much less common. Or, if it does happen you can just walk to the casino next door.

-Felix
 
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Felix Rue-de-Guerre

Well-Known Member
A bit more

I can't remember the exact values of all the hands. But I do remember that he forced a hard 13 upon the woman. So, not only did he screw himself, he screwed her too. And she completely went along with it.

Again... Unbelievable!

-Felix
 
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Stealth Bomber

Well-Known Member
Amazing people

I assume Mr. snaggle-tooth and the fat lady lost both of their stiff hands? It would have been even more sickening if they had won with their plays resulting in a D bust.

We need to come up with a snappy 'set them in their place' come back whenever we see this kind of ignorance. If I had a good answer to these kind of people, maybe I could get them to feel uncomfortable and leave the table, thus keeping me from losing my composure and EV. Also, less players at the table is always better. ;-)

Any body have any snappy come-backs we can use for the "card flow" people?
 
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revereman

Well-Known Member
It is both redundant and repetitive to write a partially toothless redneck. You know you are a redneck when...you use an old TV as a TV stand for your new TV. (there are a lot better ones from Jeff Foxworthy but for some reason I remember that one).
Good story.
 
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Counter - Intelligence

Member
Problem is

These people are so stupid and so dense that they are oblivious to any reference to comon sense or logic. Snappy answers get you nowhere with these types. They are quite convinced that they have captured the essense of the mystical side of the game. I generally agree with most of these types at the table especially if the pit is nearby. That alone is usually good for a 50% increase in spread.
 
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Big Cowboy

Well-Known Member
You know when you're a redneck ploppy when you give up a hand of 21. Once, when I played in Vegas, there was a newby ploppy playing to my left who split 10s. She ended up winning one hand and losing one and was happy to have just pushed. I was having a bad day, so I couldn't help myself when I told her she actually had lost money. I had won my hand and would have won if she had just stayed on 20. She didn't understand that she would have won money if she had just stayed pat with a her good hand, and even the dealer tried with no good result to explain to her that splitting tens was usually a bad idea. I will never forget her reply to me: "It's not like I'm playing with real money. Those chips aren't for real." The dealer and I just looked at each other like, she's good looking but boy is she a pile of mush inside. I left the table soon after because I was losing money overall at that casino. It reminded me of the Simpsons episode when the feds tried to explain to Homer how to call for help when he felt he was in danger. He didn't understand the danger in joining the witness protection program, and instead wore a t-shirt that showed that he was in hiding. He thought he was going on vacation for free.
 
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BlackJackHack

Well-Known Member
Re: A good snappy answer for ploppies

I agree.

It's very tempting to try to tell off ploppies, to explain how stupid they are, and demonstrate how intelligent we are. Most of us APs are well educated geeky professional types who like people to think we are smart (because we are smart). When playing BJ, however, it is counterproductive for anybody to think you have a clue. The hardest part of counting for me is to check my ego at the door and act like the other idiots in the casino. It is, however, critical to your longevity.
 
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BradRod

Well-Known Member
great story felix, these pathetic imbeciles take their notions about this game way too far.

Back from Budapest. more about that another time.

along the same lines .. but having more to do with pit person.
this weekend I was playing where you first noticed me. Same table as a matter of fact. at 3rd base - (postion 6 ? ) hit 12 against a 2 or 3 .. or one of those plays that makes other players want to comment about it.. maybe it was soft 18. dont remeber but what ever it was the result prevented the dealer drawing to 21 and everyone got paid.

now, I have been trying to work on my camaflage a bit trying to act more like a ploppie when i can to keep from getting noticed too much. When everyone started to make me out to be a hero for playing 3rd base properly and responsibly with the best interests of the table in mind, i jokingly made a gesture with my hand that they should all pay me for my proper play in saving their hands.

the next hand was dealt and i get a tap on the shoulder from the pit person, "sorry sir , i have to ask you not to do that". i got startled and answered " i swear i wasnt counting cards and varying my bet and strategy according to the count. i swear that insurance bet was just on a hunch and even if i was counting cards i lost the count a couple of hands ago when the waitress spilled the drink on that other player. Please dont back me off .. ( just kidding : )
"no, silly . she said - we know you cant count all those cards in the shoe there are too many of them for anyone to do that " -- ok,, no, what she said was.. "we cant have you asking for money from the other players.. ( was there a phone call from the camera people about this ?? ) i answered that i was only kidding and evryone else here knew that i was kidding. she said yes but we have to put a stop too this there is too muxh of it going around so we just dont allow it.. meaning players are actually paying other players for "flow" type strategies pretty scary huh ?

meanwhile, while this pit person was distracting me the dealer passed me right by with my soft 18 against her 6. she was already revealing her hole card when i noticed it, i protested that i was going to double down on it.. at least the pit person had the sense to allow me to do this without an argument i drew a 2. the dealer revealed her hole face card - 16 and drew an 8. Busted !!.. guess i saved the table again ..
 
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Stealth Bomber

Well-Known Member
Re: A good snappy answer for ploppies

Your responses to my last post are all very correct. But I will elaborate this time on a specific reason I want to shut them up so I can continue to do what I need to do.

On 6D, I will usually always spread to two hands when the D is at 2TC or better. Therefore I'm back a forth often using either one hand, two hands or maybe doing a mini wong out by just sitting out a few 'til the cut card comes or C gets better. During my mini wong out, I may talk to the the PC, light a smoke (even though I'm a non-smoker)or back-off and pretend to make a call on the cell phone.

Sometimes people get so pissed when I do these things. When they are pissed, so becomes the D. I either have to cut it back or say something to get them off my back.

Suggestions for this situation please?
 
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Tom

Well-Known Member
suggestion

I usually bet one hand of 4 units went the count is only a tc of 2 and will often spread to 2 hands of 4 if the tc is more than 3. This way I can play 2 hands longer and often finish out the shoe. If the TC drops I'll still play 2 hands untill I no longer have an edge. Maybe you should wait a little longer before going to 2 hands.

Tom
 
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Victoria

Well-Known Member
The flow is about the future?????

Yesterday, I am at 3rd base, count is +5, I have 2 bets of 200 out there. I get 2 16's in a no surrender game. The dealer has a 10 showing. Guy to my right hits 15 and busts, I stay. Dealer turns a 3 and busts and the whole table is congratulating me except the guy who busted is irrate that I ruined the flow for the rest of the shoe. He is actually convincing the other ploppies till I asked him if he was winning this shoe. When he said no, I said I did it because I thought we needed to change the flow. Respect the flow when speaking to ploppies, if it works or not, you just felt in your voodoo heart that the flow needed changing.
Queen of the anit-flow, Victoria
 
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Felix Rue-de-Guerre

Well-Known Member
Hey Brad,

I've played there a bit this year, I think about 12 hours over 3 trips. But one trip was very short.

I showed up at about 6am, after one uneventful shoe, I moved to another table in a different pit. Half way through, the count went up to +5 rapidly and kept edging up. I won almost every top bet plus a couple doubles and a blackjack. I'm at 1st. Pit man standing behind me on the other side of the rope with the big bets out.

I figured I should color up. It would be bad if he saw me drop back to a min bet with the new shoe. I was laughing a bit and being jovial as the dealer was counting the chips. After he confirmed the color up with the pit, he said(still behind me): "Not bad for a days work, Huh?". I turned around to make a bit of small talk. Then I noticed his tone, it completely broke the mood! He repeated himself while staring at me: "Not bad for a days work, huh?"

I really got the impression he was on to me. I really caught a vibe from him. He may have put me in the computer as a minimum bettor for comp purposes. Then saw $x15 and got concerned. But then again it would be hard to tell after only one shoe. I don't know, but it spooked me a bit. Just to be safe I left.

-Felix
 
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Abraham de Moivre

Well-Known Member
The correct reply

When confronted with the "good day's work" accusation --

Look at the guy right in the eye, then say loudly, "You bet! Now after last night, I am almost EVEN!"
 
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Felix Rue-de-Guerre

Well-Known Member
Well...

The word in the street is that this place is notorious for keeping track of cumulative wins/losses... And I have a lot of their money. When this incident happened, I had been there recently only once. He may have noticed this in the computer.
 
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Big Cowboy

Well-Known Member
Re: The flow is about the future?????

After reviewing this thread, it seems to me that if you want to blend in as a ploppy, all you need is a quick wit in saying something really and incredibly stupid. Then all should be well. In other words, you have to really know what you're doing to act so stupid. Nice job Victoria. Sometimes it is just really hard not to keep my temper at ploppies from boiling over.
 
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Victoria

Well-Known Member
Re: The flow is about the future?????

Growing up in the Bronx really helps concerning quick come backs, but of course there are many times I do want to show some person that they have no idea what they are talking about. What I realize is that you are not dealing with logic here, you are dealing with emotion/blackjack religion, just a belief system based upon voodoo. Especially within a table group, converting them is impossible and will bring player and possibly pit heat upon you. So I try to speak ploppish and twist my flow changing strategies into something like changing the flow for the better. Sometimes I just have to be the dumb woman at the table who went with that intuition thing. They tend to buy it, though I doubt a mind play computer would. New subject but would that make Mind Play sexist? Or is it racist, since I am not an Anglo? I do like being under the radar screen.
 
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