Four days in AC—hope springs eternal.

aslan

Well-Known Member
Where to start? My first day in AC gained me a nice $1,100. That would have been a good place to head home. But like most counters I figured you just keep playing since you’re going for the long run and there are more gains ahead than losses. I figured if my luck held up I would leave about $3,000 winner Thursday. Then of course the Blackjack gods began showing up. Who told them I was in AC? It must have been that sleazy looking pit man at the Taj Mahal. There’s one thing I must say: when you go from the Borgata to one of the Trump properties, you feel like you’re going from luxury to a lower class joint. The Borgata is more customer-friendly and business-like (we give you good games in pleasant surroundings, but it's a business and we have to make a profit to stay in business); Trump managers, on the other hand, often seem to have a sly "con man" way about them (smiling while thinking, "Here comes another sucker whose pocket we can pick." The more often I make this journey, the more I see it this way. But that’s another story.

From Monday through Thursday my fortune was up, down, up down, and finally up. And this was often in $1,000+ increments. It seems there is no escaping the roller coaster syndrome in card counting, at least, not using KO. Is KO the problem, or is this the reality of all card counting systems? Anyway, it always seems to ratchet up over time. I left between $700 and $800 richer and spent $900 in comps on clothing and a Sony HD DVD Recorder and VCR. Taj is great for comps because at Trump Exchange you get one comp dollar equals one US Dollar, whereas at other places you have to spend two comp dollars to get one US Dollar. Also, I played a lot of VP between tables and won a whopping $50+ on a 25 cent deuces wild machine by hitting four deuces. It’s a good way to push up those comps, too. I tried my hand at a little dice control even though I have practiced very little. I was able to hold the dice twenty minutes the first time and I seven-ed out almost immediately the second time. Holding the dice for longer than average is a very encouraging experience and makes me want to practice a lot and record results before my next trip. It would really be nice to have two advantage plays. Just blackjack tends to be boring and more like “work” after a while as initial expectations surrender to real life experience. Lol Well, all in all it was a profitable trip. I enjoyed myself immensely, ate good food, met interesting people, and almost got enough sleep (I’m working on it :)).

:dog: Azzie
 

halcyon1234

Well-Known Member
Interesting report. I wouldn't have thought the Trump places would suck so bad-- but when I think about Trump's attitude in general, I don't think I'm surprised.

Sony HD DVD Recorder and VCR
Lol, now that's an exercise in extremes.
 

aslan

Well-Known Member
halcyon1234 said:
Interesting report. I wouldn't have thought the Trump places would suck so bad-- but when I think about Trump's attitude in general, I don't think I'm surprised.



Lol, now that's an exercise in extremes.
Yeah! It's a DVD recorder and player with a VCR built in. I just got my wife an HD Sony LCD TV and this will really compliment it. The VCR is great for all those tapes she's made over the years, and the HD DVD recorder brings us into the 21st century. LOL
 

sagefr0g

Well-Known Member
aslan said:
........
From Monday through Thursday my fortune was up, down, up down, and finally up. And this was often in $1,000+ increments. It seems there is no escaping the roller coaster syndrome in card counting, at least, not using KO. Is KO the problem, or is this the reality of all card counting systems? Anyway, it always seems to ratchet up over time. ........
that was pretty much my experience with hi/lo. just smaller increments as i must have had a lower max bet than yours.
you know thats how many books describe it..... a real roller coaster ride.
my ups and downs were usually within a session with most sessions ending on a high note. i'd purposely end a session when i'd win over about a standard deviations worth of money or if i was losing i'd just keep playing till my trip bankroll was gone. not a recommended method or a way to get an advantage it was just what i was comfortable with.
 

EasyRhino

Well-Known Member
a) It's not KO's fault, it's just what happens.

b) Don't expect to be able to control dice. It seems that only very few people can do it, after RIDICULOUS practice, and many are skeptical of even that. You were just playing craps.

c) You're still not playing max coints on VP machines, aren't you? Be careful or I'm going to start calling you a VP ploppie.

I agree that it's tempting to bail early after a big win. And, in fact, if you're at one particular casino, that can be a good idea if a bigger win would attract too much attention, then you could move elsewhere. But otherwise, you're also right that this is just a job that you need to put the hours into, so keeping playing is usually a good idea. To keep from having unrealistic expectations for the rest of a trip, I just keep telling myself that all I can really hope to win is my hourly EV for my play, anything else is just dumb luck.
 

21forme

Well-Known Member
While Trump may be 1:1 on merchandise, their comp rate seems MUCH lower than the others, especially Borgata. The first time I played at Trump, I played at either a $25 or $50 min table for about 2 hours total and wound up with 8 comp dollars!
 

Tarzan

Banned
Prices of stuff in those retail stores

I was looking at the prices on stuff at the Trump stores the other day and WHEW! it's all marked at about 3 times what you would pay for it at your local Walmart. I recall taking a stroll through the forum shops in Ceasar's Vegas and seeing $2000 purses and $3000 pairs of women's boots so I guess AC is not so bad??haha ---Not like I have any comp to speak of anyway (at any place for that matter) because I hardly show a card anymore since I noticed that what I score in comp, which last I did any comparison was about $2 an hour if I played at a $25 min table...less than what I would give the waitress for my drinks. So for some time now I have viewed getting "comped" as a waste of time and merely a means of the casino tracking every penny on me. That's just me though, so I am not saying to not try for comp because I am always hearing about people scoring great comps and freebies and stuff! Maybe they just hate me personally.

I know what you mean about comparing Borgata to Taj but Borgata is "brand new" compared to Taj...so spiffier and spotless right down to those shiny, slippery brand new looking chips! Taj Mahal's chips have been out there getting fondled by lots of greasy fingers so are somewhat battle weary over the period of time. The beauty of glistening brand new chips as opposed to crusty old chips does not bother me in the least since they all seem to cash in at the cage just the same but in Taj Mahal they use 8 decks at all the tables except for in the pit where they use 6 and I don't have such a warm, fuzzy feeling about playing with 8 decks. Not like I won't do it but I prefer the 6.

Perhaps my New Year's resolution will be to not waste time looking at outrageously priced knick-knacks in casino retail shops, to look for only 6 deck games where they have crusty ol' chips, the dealer is cross-eyed with the left breast slightly larger than the right one and only cuts off one deck out of the 6 with the cut card, only hand-shuffled cards instead of those autoshufflers(so I can bring in my "Kreskin's ESP" technical assistant to do the ace clump tracking for me) and....full ashtrays!(which I am not sure of the reason but I saw people laughing and yucking it up in critiquing about some foolish thing in which full ashtrays meant something good or positive)!!!!
 
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aslan

Well-Known Member
sagefr0g said:
that was pretty much my experience with hi/lo. just smaller increments as i must have had a lower max bet than yours.
you know thats how many books describe it..... a real roller coaster ride.
my ups and downs were usually within a session with most sessions ending on a high note. i'd purposely end a session when i'd win over about a standard deviations worth of money or if i was losing i'd just keep playing till my trip bankroll was gone. not a recommended method or a way to get an advantage it was just what i was comfortable with.

Until now, I tended to "TRY" to keep playing a session until it ended on a good note. This had two results: (1) some VERY long sessions; and (2) some VERY LARGE LOSSES. I think (no, I'm sure) the very long sessions contributed to the very large size of the losses because of how VERY TIRED I was. LOL

Now I am committed to smaller sessions regardless of whether I win or lose. My losing sessions still tend to be large, but not quite as large. The reason seems to be that I increase my max bet in an attempt to recoup my losses more quickly. My reasoning goes as follows: (1) My bankroll can afford it. (2) Because I'm losing, the house tends to see it as steaming behavior, so they don't foreclose on 20 times spreads. (3) I figure it's all one continuous session anyway, so the odds of continuing to lose are no greater if I stop than if I continue to play (as long as I don't play too tired and mentally impaired).

Another curious thing, I noticed this last trip that I lost big on $10 tables, and won all of my sessions on $25 tables. I don't know what that has to do with anything--just reporting the facts.
 

aslan

Well-Known Member
Tarzan said:
I was looking at the prices on stuff at the Trump stores the other day and WHEW! it's all marked at about 3 times what you would pay for it at your local Walmart.

Every store every where is priced higher than Walmart. But the Trump Exchange at Taj Mahal did not seem too awfyully pricey, at least not as pricey as Borgata stores where a T-shirt might cost you $50 or $75 and on top of that you only get $1 for every $2 of comp. You have to be selective. Some things are priced okay, others are not. Az :dog:

I know what you mean about comparing Borgata to Taj but Borgata is "brand new" compared to Taj...

At Taj the pit critters seems more out of Fast Eddies' pool room than the Neiman Marcus department store. Trump makes you feel like shark bait. They don't have 6-deck at Taj, although they do at Plaza. About the most Trump ever tried to do to me was bring in a super fast dealer every time I sat down, which I prefer anyway as long as I'm well rested. I just don't like playing in the atmosphere they create, and I don't like playing 8-deck (which won't stop me from continuing to play Trump Plaza). BTW, I always feel like the ratio of low lifes are much higher at Trump casinos than at Borgata, creating a sense of always having to be on guard to the extreme. It's like the difference between Circus Circus and Venetian in Vegas. Az :dog:

Perhaps my New Year's resolution will be to not waste time looking at outrageously priced knick-knacks in casino retail shops, to look for only 6 deck games where they have crusty ol' chips, the dealer is cross-eyed with the left breast slightly larger than the right one and only cuts off one deck out of the 6 with the cut card, only hand-shuffled cards instead of those autoshufflers(so I can bring in my "Kreskin's ESP" technical assistant to do the ace clump tracking for me) and....full ashtrays!(which I am not sure of the reason but I saw people laughing and yucking it up in critiquing about some foolish thing in which full ashtrays meant something good or positive)!!!!

Yes, but don't sell comps short. Three days free rooms at Borgata, two great meals at the Amphora Lounge that cost $10 each that would have cost $70 plus anywhere else, including all the free cocktails or bottles of wine you want, other smaller free meals at very nice restaurants at Borgata, plus ten percent off purchases (premium player's card) of yes too pricey clothing and merchandise but still all free due to comps, and all 6-deck games, some handshuffled, some not, at Borgata. And, oh yes, the pen was playable at Borgata this trip. Even with good comp (sometimes) at Taj, you have to wait forever in 8-deck for a good count that may never come. I'm not into wonging in and out of 8-deck. It's the pits. Az :dog:
...
 

glovesetc

Well-Known Member
WTG aslan

You made a winner and that is all that counts. Buened off some comp dollars as well and ate well . All in all it ws a good show buddy !!!!:) :grin: ;) :cool: :laugh: :cool2:
 

aslan

Well-Known Member
glovesetc said:
You made a winner and that is all that counts. Buened off some comp dollars as well and ate well . All in all it ws a good show buddy !!!!:) :grin: ;) :cool: :laugh: :cool2:
You got that right, pal! I had a great time. I'll be ready for a return bout the day after Christmas. BTW, Happy Holiday, whatever you celebrate, and I hope you have a prosperous new year! As Goucho Marx once said: "[Money] frees you from doing things you dislike. Since I dislike doing nearly everything, money is handy." Az :dog:
 

glovesetc

Well-Known Member
may you

and yours as well have a nice holiday whatever you may celebrate . It is the season to give more then to receive in reality as there is so many out there with nothing . I plan on making some contributions to food banks and to a couple homeless shelters as well. I had a great scam er I mean charity last year - that some contributed to . I was also thinking of opening a home up for wayward and homeless nymphomaniacs as well this holiday season . I am so big hearted - lol !!!!! To me i feel as long as I am breathing it is a bonus and in reality ay my age there is nothing I need or do not have anyways and if i want something I do not wait for a holiday - just go and get it . It is better to perhaps give a little something of your time , money, or goods that you no longer use to charities of your choosing . In reality though it is something we should do all year around - not just on a holiday . You will feel better and like yourself better as well .:) :grin: ;) :cool: :laugh: :cool2:
 
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glovesetc

Well-Known Member
by the way

I am christian - united presbyterian to be exact so i do celebrate Christmas my friend .:) :grin: ;) :cool: :laugh: :cool2:
 

aslan

Well-Known Member
glovesetc said:
I am christian - united presbyterian to be exact so i do celebrate Christmas my friend .:) :grin: ;) :cool: :laugh: :cool2:
My favorite pastor of all time was raised a Presbyterian in Scotland, so we were fortunate to get him as a Catholic priest. I'm part Scotch myself (the kind you drink as well--single malt, please, preferably, Macallan!), and the Scots have a really great perspective on life, except for the Presbyterians--they're way too strict--at least, according to my pastor! LOL He hated it when the Catholic boys were out playing soccer on Sunday. LOL Merry Christmas, my friend. Az :dog:
 

aslan

Well-Known Member
EasyRhino said:
a) It's not KO's fault, it's just what happens.

b) Don't expect to be able to control dice. It seems that only very few people can do it, after RIDICULOUS practice, and many are skeptical of even that. You were just playing craps.

c) You're still not playing max coints on VP machines, aren't you? Be careful or I'm going to start calling you a VP ploppie.

I agree that it's tempting to bail early after a big win. And, in fact, if you're at one particular casino, that can be a good idea if a bigger win would attract too much attention, then you could move elsewhere. But otherwise, you're also right that this is just a job that you need to put the hours into, so keeping playing is usually a good idea. To keep from having unrealistic expectations for the rest of a trip, I just keep telling myself that all I can really hope to win is my hourly EV for my play, anything else is just dumb luck.

Since your advice last week, I am ONLY playing max bet on VP machines. I am thinking about adding VP to my repetoire. Somewhere I have a slot program that teaches you how to play VP with perfect basic strategy, depending on the type of game.

I don't have illusions that I was "controlling" the dice. I may have some correlation in my throw, but not control. But because of my skill at billiards and understanding and experience with touch, stroke, spin, rhythm and finesse, I do believe that I will be able to learn DC technique if such a thing really exists. I can do things on the pool table that border on magical; who knows, maybe I can do it on the crap table as well. ;)
 

aslan

Well-Known Member
21forme said:
While Trump may be 1:1 on merchandise, their comp rate seems MUCH lower than the others, especially Borgata. The first time I played at Trump, I played at either a $25 or $50 min table for about 2 hours total and wound up with 8 comp dollars!
I have had the opposite experience. My comps at Trump Taj grew much more rapidly than at Borgata, although I did earn my premium black label card sooner at Borgata. Sometimes, I have noticed between my gambling partner and me that there are serious discrepancies in the comps that we each earn doing about the same volume of gambling. The casinos' comping systems, and individuals who input our ratings into the system are far less than perfect and very inconsistent.
 

21forme

Well-Known Member
aslan said:
I have had the opposite experience. My comps at Trump Taj grew much more rapidly than at Borgata, although I did earn my premium black label card sooner at Borgata. Sometimes, I have noticed between my gambling partner and me that there are serious discrepancies in the comps that we each earn doing about the same volume of gambling. The casinos' comping systems, and individuals who input our ratings into the system are far less than perfect and very inconsistent.
Interesting...
BTW, if you didn't know about it, Trump currently has an offer where they'll upgrade you to their black card by presenting a premium card from another house. They also give you 100 comp dollars to start you out. I did it using my Borgata black card.
 

aslan

Well-Known Member
21forme said:
Interesting...
BTW, if you didn't know about it, Trump currently has an offer where they'll upgrade you to their black card by presenting a premium card from another house. They also give you 100 comp dollars to start you out. I did it using my Borgata black card.
Yup. I did it a month ago. But since then, I reached the 10,000 point tier level anyway, which qualified me for the Chairman's card.

I'm thinking about beginning VP play at the $5 X 5 level as Ken does. It will surely keep my comp level up to qualify for the premium card each year, plus it provides a diversion from the constant blackjack play. Ken says that even though he has yet to hit the $20,000 RSF (1 in 40,000) he is still ahead on payback and comps alone. I'm trying to find my VP software for practicing BS for each type of game.
 
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