Foxwoods

Z

Z

Member
Can somebody who is willing to help a semi-beginner e-mail me [email protected]? I would like a complete system that I can learn to beat an 8D, DA2, DAS, S17, Late Surrender game. What is the best system for this game?

Thanks,
Z
 
zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
Re: Foxwoods HERE

tags and indices (use first set)-
(Dead link: http://cardcounter.com/Everything.htm#System) Indices
free online counting school -
http://www.gamemasteronline.com/indexa.shtml?GameMasters/GameMasterClassicsIndex.shtml

search this site for many addt'l clues about improving the odds at shoe-games (such as avoiding neg-counts). zg
 
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joe_r_black

Active Member
When I was on the East Coast I used to play at Foxwoods and Mohegan Sun 2-3 times a month. With the poor penetration and 8 decks there is little volatility in the count. Red 7 with its low pivot was perfect for those playing conditions. Best count to take advantage of the advantage around +1 TC.
 
zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
Re: Foxwoods AGREED ...

...Red7 found in Snyder's 'Blackbelt' is a fine count for a beginner AND it can be enhanced/evolved over time to a hybrid TC level-2 WITHOUT changing counts, making it a near ideal selection for someone starting out. zg
 
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joe_r_black

Active Member
Re: Foxwoods AGREED ... FINALLY

Casino_bound_east. I started with an $800 bankroll and over about 8 months turned it into $13,000.

Now that I'm on the West Coast I changed counts due to the availability of 1 and 2 deck games although I play infrequently.
 
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joe_r_black

Active Member
Re: Foxwoods AGREED ... HA!

I should probably go back to it. Haven't won like that since. I have B. Harris' book with BRH-0,1 and 2. Should probably reread that since BRH-0 is Red 7 with all sevens counted and he has the optimal betting ramps as well.
 
zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
Re: Foxwoods AGREED ... HA!

if you would still be confortable with the R7 tags, just cut BH's i#s in half, later you could count all7s +.50 - the point being that extra-complexity does NOT typically translate out to extra-winnings at the table. Don't tell me that you went to Brh-2? Brh-2 is the logical final extension of ZEN and will perform beyond HO2 SCORE, but without a full-fledged Ace-secondary count it will underperform regZEN - nobody plays that beheemoth (brh-2) - and as for the 'optimal bet charts', they are of limited value at the table. If you don't play brh-2, what is it now? zg
 
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joe_r_black

Active Member
Re: Foxwoods AGREED ... HA!

I went from Red 7 to Zen but that took all the fun out of counting. Began to resemble work. So the I went to the other extreme with KO. KO was very easy but not very good for 1 or 2 decks. Currently I'm playing Hi Lo.

I'm the equal opportunity counter, trying them all.
 
Z

Zagger

New Member
Re: Foxwoods - follow up question

I am also considering the Foxwoods game to begin my card counting adventure... I'm at the point of having perfected BS for the game rules, and just beginning serious count practice (I'm leaning towards using KO). My question is more theoretical though - can the Foxwoods game be beaten? If so, what advantage can be gained?

I know the game can be beaten in an ideal world with great penetration and spread (and no heat), but I don't know if the conditions at FW provide for that - I guess I'm asking the question in the qualitative sense. In other words, before I invest a bunch of hours getting my game ready for the big show I want to make sure my expectations are in line... If it matters at all, I will likely be a red chip player to start.

I have read online that Foxwoods provides better penetration than Mohegan Sun (the Sun being nearly unplayable), etc. Anything anyone can contribute would be appreciated...

Thanks in advance!
 
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joe_r_black

Active Member
Re: Foxwoods - follow up question

Foxwoods is a huge place, actually a number of casinos in the same complex.

Penetration varies from less than 1 deck cutoff to around 2.5 cutoff.

The way to beat the place is to move around and find the best penetration and stay away from poor games.

They manage the tables well so wonging in is pretty hard to do. Better to wong out in negative counts.

If you get to know some of the other players you may find that sharing of dealer info is to everyone's advantage.
 
zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
Re: Foxwoods AGREED ... HA!

They all are fine for any #decks - I would think that ZEN would be a snap for you, is it the tags or the TC adjustment? If tags, then stay with HiLo, if TC not tags, move to UBZ2, or if all or non of the above then stay with HiLo and add more i#s or return to R7 and add more i#s. and, if its the i#s that slow you down, add more i#s BUT first perform a 'radical-cross-index-rounding' upon the enlarged (50+) matrix (ie, round to 0-2-4, etc. or 0-3-6, GeoC uses 0-5-10, ZEN'97 uses 0-4-8). zg
 
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joe_r_black

Active Member
Re: Foxwoods AGREED ... HA!

I use rounded index numbers similar to hi lo lite in Blackbelt in Blackjack. I haven't gone past the first 22 because of changing counts all the time.

I just found that with Zen I had to concentrate with the level two count and with a level one I didn't. The extra theoretical gain didn't seem worth the work with the little amount I play plus Zen doesn't appear to be that good for 6-8 decks due to the lower BC.

It could be that I didn't stick with Zen long enough to become automatic with it like the level one counts.
 
T

Theef

Active Member
Re: Foxwoods - follow up question

Unless it's changed recently, my experience is that the Foxwoods penetration hardly ever varies from 2.0 decks.

If you observed only 1 deck cutoff, you didn't happen to remember the dealer's name, did you? <:)
 
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Theef

Active Member
East coast blackjack is the pits

The game at Foxwoods is theoretically beatable, but it is hardly worth the effort. As with any eight deck monster, you have to spread like it's going out of style, so you subject yourself to immense variance for a piddling hourly EV. Furthermore, Foxwoods is notorious for crowding its tables, so more often than not, you'll spend ten or fifteen minutes backcounting only to have the table fill up long before the count ever gets decent.

If you're a total novice, you may find Foxwoods worthwhile for practice, but otherwise I'd rather save my bankroll for trips to Vegas.

By the way, the same goes for Mohegan Slum and AC, except the Slum has even worse penetration, and AC doesn't offer surrender (although the tables are a little less crowded.)

By the way, it's tough to find nickel tables at Foxwoods and the Slum, and sometimes there aren't any ten dollar tables either.
 
zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
Re: Foxwoods AGREED ... SETTLED!

>>Since I use the Catch 22, what 18 others do you recommend? <<

18 AT LEAST, i say go for an additional 40+ (its no harder than multiplication tables), so 18 more is the next gradient - add the i#s -2 to +4 excluding A2-A6 and 22-99. oh, and increase a few of the DD indices by 50%, including 10v10/A, 9v2/7, A8v4-6, etc. (these are the 'risk-averse'mods) zg
 
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