Fun with Ploppys

[GeorgeD]

Playing tonight at a $10 table. Hit a soft 18 vs 9 and won, but lady to my left busts and starts jabbering how I should have stayed ......18 is a good hand and muttering on and on. I just kept quiet, but dealer says "he played it right maa'm, and anyway it's his money'. She quiets a little, but still jabbering, mostly to herself

Then I split 9's vs 9 and pushed ..... she almost had a stroke. Dealer comments the same, she keeps jabbering about my ruining the cards. After about 4 hands she starts saying "I'm gonna find another table, this one's 'bad'" Plays a few other hands still jabbering, and another player says "Either shut up of leave". She leaves.:grin:

This is the first time I knowingly drove someone from a table by playing right.
Feel like I lost my virginity.

Oh yea, I thanked and toked the dealer for her support.

PS: I almost doubled an A6 VS 2 and same dealer stopped me and said "not a 2, if it's a 3,4,5,6 then double. I won, but she was right, so how could I be mad?

 

[EasyRhino]

Congratulations. I'm surprised you had a dealer that had the BS nailed, AND another player that called the ploppy on her voodoo!

You must have been at some kind of smart-people casino.

 

[Mr. T]

Welcome to the club

This soft 18 is the most outreaguous play to the ploppys.
But count your lucky stars that you have a dealer that supports you and other freindly players on the table.
I once found myself unwittingly in the third base position. I was dealt a soft 18 and the dealer had a 10. In the European BJ game the dealer does not check for BJ as he is not dealt a second card. When I motion for a hit the woman next to me ask me "you have 18 already, why do you want another card". How do you explain to her that it is the right play without slowing down the game. Well, as luck would have it I got a 5 and then a 10 and busted. The dealer then drew a 10 for 20 and collected all the bets from the other players. Next thing I knew everybody has left the table and I was not very popular around the BJ tables for the rest of the cruise.

 

[Thunder]

I get all sorts of heat for doubling on soft 18s as well as hitting them from the ploppies. I just explain to them that 18 is not a winning hand and quote them statistics This is hy it's sometimes more fun to play at higher table limits because then most of the players actually know bs. I cleared a whole table before when I hit a 12 vs a dealer 14 in a negative count and as a result busted and the dealer got 21 on her 14.

 

[Preston]

Plays that piss ploppies off

The following is my list of hands that I deal with more ploppy bitching than any other hands: These are BS plays, not AP indexes

hitting soft 18 vs 9 10 or A
split 99 vs dealer 9
split 77 vs dealer 7
hitting 12 vs 3
double down soft 18 vs 3 4 5 or 6

but some of my favorite index plays:

hitting 12 vs dealer 4
splitting 22 vs a dealer 2
double down on hard 8 vs dealer 6

 

[ihate17]

You were fortunate

You played correctly but were fortunate to have both a dealer and another player on your side. Generally on these basic strategy plays there is the effect of complete anger by everyone if it does not work. If all win then it is forgotten.
If several or everyone loses they blame you (you should not card) and that includes the vast majority of dealers. I had an instance, not long ago, where my doubling a soft 18 vs dealer 5 backfired. Guy next to me has a $1000 bet and a $50 bet for the dealer. He (moron with big bucks) stays on soft 17 which we know he should have doubled. I double and get a 4 and stay, so you could say I got his 4 that would have given him a 21. I now stay at 12, dealer turns a 6 for 11 and hits a picture and kills the table, but that is only part of the story. Dealer picks up my 4 and shows it to me and says, "your dumb play cost everyone here, this should be my card." Generally, arguing with a dealer is minus EV for me, but if this shithead wanted to show me up, I was in no mood for it. Told him, "that is ridiculous, the 4 if it should have been anyone's card it should have gone to the guy on my right who just called me the worst player he ever say." Anyway, first card out of the shoe was a queen, meaning the dealer was getting 21 anyway
Interestingly enough, the only other player at the table left and for the next 20 minutes it was just myself and my two new friends at the table and I had loads of fun.
In a negative count shoe I hit 12 and 13 vs dealer 4-6 during a couple of hands.
On the dealers last shoe and right before I was leaving the casino a good shoe happened. I split 10's and get a 10 on the first but stay and get an ace on the second, the dealer makes a 17 and takes the guys money to my right and he starts swearing about the bust card. I tell him he can change tables but I love it here. Then I add salt to the wound and say, "guess who would have gotten that ace if I did not split?" Next hand I get blackjack as the new dealer taps in and I finish the shoe and leave.
I was surprised I was not backed off, but figure that if I stayed longer I might have been. Also, pissing off one of their big tippers will not earn me any brownie points.
Finally, (I do think about these things) I had to wonder why the moron to my right did not leave the table. Most ploppies would have but I think this guy wanted to witness my "horrible" play wipe me out.
I would rather these instances do not happen and they do not happen that often but you are better off having fun with them and not let them ever intimidate you and dealers should not really get involved even if they lost a toke.

ihate17

 

[tribute]

but some of my favorite index plays:

hitting 12 vs dealer 4
splitting 22 vs a dealer 2
double down on hard 8 vs dealer 6

Is splitting 22 vs dealer 2 considered an index play? I thought it was basic strategy.

 

[EasyRhino]

2,2 vs 2 depends on DAS.

IH17, I'm not sure if I would have wanted to piss of the moron big-tipper either. I mean hey, a tipped dealer is a happy distracted dealer, and it's even better when you're not paying for the tips!

Today, we had a stretch where the dealer was drawing to a lot of pat hands when showing 2-6. Guy next to me says "That's it, I'm not doing any more of this standing on 12, doubling down on 9 crap". We were able to have some fun with it. Few hands later, dealer is showing low card. I have something like A,7, double down, and get a 7. Guy says "that's the card I wanted". I look at his hand, (it's a 14), and say "Oh, my bad, I forgot that you're hitting everything today" And then on later hands I'd call him a pussy when he wouldn't hit his 13, it was great.

Course, I was sitting with generally pleasant people today (the two Asian drug dealer guys might have been trouble, but they only played a couple hands). And actually, once I had my bigger bets out, I became the gorilla at the table, and they deferred to me (there was some grumbling about me hogging the blackjacks)

 

[GeorgeD]

<snip>
And actually, once I had my bigger bets out, I became the gorilla at the table, and they deferred to me (there was some grumbling about me hogging the blackjacks)

Why do people at a table often get quiet, defer to and rarely criticize a big better? I'm sure you were the BP more than once Rhino, but a Guy sat by me at a $10-$300 table, bought 6 blacks and proceeded to play $300 per hand.

He won a few hands, and I started wondering if someone called him in, but on the new shoe he still bet $300. At one point he reluctantly split 77 vs 7 got 4 on one and clicked his chips for a full minute until he decided to NOT double, hit and got the 10. Was an OK player, but didn't seem to have the nerve or bankroll for $300 bets ........ still everyone acted like he was the man. He was up about $1500-$1800 at one point, but left broke after maybe an hour play.

There were plenty of $25 and $50 tables and probably some $100 in the high limit table. If he wasn't going to spread his bet I have to think he sat there just so he could feel like the big player and impress the table.

Hell, I could've played that $600 for hours at $10-60 bets before I lost it :grin:

 

[Thunder]

You played correctly but were fortunate to have both a dealer and another player on your side. Generally on these basic strategy plays there is the effect of complete anger by everyone if it does not work. If all win then it is forgotten.
If several or everyone loses they blame you (you should not card) and that includes the vast majority of dealers. I had an instance, not long ago, where my doubling a soft 18 vs dealer 5 backfired. Guy next to me has a $1000 bet and a $50 bet for the dealer. He (moron with big bucks) stays on soft 17 which we know he should have doubled. I double and get a 4 and stay, so you could say I got his 4 that would have given him a 21. I now stay at 12, dealer turns a 6 for 11 and hits a picture and kills the table, but that is only part of the story. Dealer picks up my 4 and shows it to me and says, "your dumb play cost everyone here, this should be my card." Generally, arguing with a dealer is minus EV for me, but if this shithead wanted to show me up, I was in no mood for it. Told him, "that is ridiculous, the 4 if it should have been anyone's card it should have gone to the guy on my right who just called me the worst player he ever say." Anyway, first card out of the shoe was a queen, meaning the dealer was getting 21 anyway
Interestingly enough, the only other player at the table left and for the next 20 minutes it was just myself and my two new friends at the table and I had loads of fun.
In a negative count shoe I hit 12 and 13 vs dealer 4-6 during a couple of hands.
On the dealers last shoe and right before I was leaving the casino a good shoe happened. I split 10's and get a 10 on the first but stay and get an ace on the second, the dealer makes a 17 and takes the guys money to my right and he starts swearing about the bust card. I tell him he can change tables but I love it here. Then I add salt to the wound and say, "guess who would have gotten that ace if I did not split?" Next hand I get blackjack as the new dealer taps in and I finish the shoe and leave.
I was surprised I was not backed off, but figure that if I stayed longer I might have been. Also, pissing off one of their big tippers will not earn me any brownie points.
Finally, (I do think about these things) I had to wonder why the moron to my right did not leave the table. Most ploppies would have but I think this guy wanted to witness my "horrible" play wipe me out.
I would rather these instances do not happen and they do not happen that often but you are better off having fun with them and not let them ever intimidate you and dealers should not really get involved even if they lost a toke.

ihate17

when would you ever hit a 12 or 13 vs a dealer 5 or 6. I would assume the count would have to be incredibly bad like a TC=-7

 

[EasyRhino]

...bought 6 blacks and proceeded to play $300 per hand.

Yeah, and he if was a serious flat-bettor at that level, he would have bought in for $1500 or $3000.

I like it when there's a whale at the table, it's just more fun. I usually get more involved in the results of the whale's play than my own (while still keeping track of my game, of course).

And of course, it's important to emphasize that whaliness is relative. At our tables, it was over $100 at a $10 table. At IH17's joint, it was a $1000 bettor. At the really fun places, it' s a $10 bet at a $1 table.

 

[ihate17]

Professional blackjack, pages 46-49

when would you ever hit a 12 or 13 vs a dealer 5 or 6. I would assume the count would have to be incredibly bad like a TC=-7

I know many never bother to learn negative indices but
1. You will find many surprising.
2. They can help you look like a bad player.

S-17
12 vs 5 -1
12 vs 6 0
13 vs 5 -4
13 vs 6 -4

H-17
12 vs 5 -1
12 vs 6 -3
13 vs 5 -4
13 vs 6 -7

ihate17

 

[Thunder]

IH17,
From what I read on bjmath.com, 12v 6 you would only do at -1 and 12 v 6 you'd do at -2 in a S17 game and frankly that is one play I find hard to do because I would think it is a guaranteed red flag not to mention you'd have people at the table screaming at you. Generally I try to leave the table or sit out when the count goes negative as more often than not, it won't reach positive territory again. Do you know at what count it makes sense to take the lucky ladies side bet? I'm guessing like +4

 

[Thunder]

IH17,
From what I read on bjmath.com, 12v 6 you would only do at -1 and 12 v 6 you'd do at -2 in a S17 game and frankly that is one play I find hard to do because I would think it is a guaranteed red flag not to mention you'd have people at the table screaming at you. Generally I try to leave the table or sit out when the count goes negative as more often than not, it won't reach positive territory again. Do you know at what count it makes sense to take the lucky ladies side bet? I'm guessing like +4