Getting deeper penetration

[hopson77]

Minds out of the gutter, folks.

In a place where penetration hovers around 70%, is there a way to suggest to the dealer that you want him to cut a few less cards off of the shoe without looking like a counter? Maybe employing some ploppy like cover and saying that you want to play more hands before the shuffle? Might this work better at a full table?

 

[shadroch]

Toking can do this. Put a tip out deep in the shuffle.Leave it out as the deck goes deep,pull it when dealer shuffles.Do this a few times and dealer should get the message.But ,in many places,the dealer doesn't have much leeway anymore.

 

[Brutus]

just ask.
I say... dont shuffle yet, I/we are just getting acquainted. (positive count)
shuffle up, these cards blow. after a loss. (negative count)
I regularly tell the pit to beat it after a loss. (bad luck)
develop your own style, and language that you are comfortable with.
have fun with the dealers
tipping doesnt hurt, just dont tip too much

 

[hopson77]

That's a lot harder to do in a shoe game. Mostly I just wanted to know how much heat this might attract. I know many dealers could care less if a counter is at their table, but I'd rather be safe than sorry.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

That's a lot harder to do in a shoe game. Mostly I just wanted to know how much heat this might attract. I know many dealers could care less if a counter is at their table, but I'd rather be safe than sorry.

Yes if there is a cut card you won't have much luck in getting the dealer to deal past it. On the other hand, when there's a cut card you can walk around the pit and see where the dealer is putting it before you sit down.

 

[hopson77]

So from what I'm reading, there's no real way to coerce deeper peneration in a shoe game without looking like a counter. Boo that.

 

[Sonny]

So from what I'm reading, there's no real way to coerce deeper peneration in a shoe game without looking like a counter. Boo that.

It's very dealer dependent. Some dealers can be coerced into slipping the cut card a little farther back but many will not. The inexperienced dealers will often follow the house procedure no matter what you say while older "savy" dealers might be more willing to do you a favor even if they think you are a streak-following ploppy.

-Sonny-

 

[hopson77]

That actually makes sense. Back in the day (several months ago) when I was a BS player and played at the Sands in AC (god..), I got friendly with a bunch of veteran dealers who were likely the type to cut a little further back on the request. I'll have to feel out some of the dealers at Borgata on my next trip.

 

[zengrifter]

In a place where penetration hovers around 70%, is there a way to suggest to the dealer that you want him to cut a few less cards off of the shoe without looking like a counter? Maybe employing some ploppy like cover and saying that you want to play more hands before the shuffle? Might this work better at a full table?

ZG Interview - page 18:

What are some of the ploys you use to induce the dealers to give you better penetration?

Inducing better penetration is a subtle art and should be attempted only if you’re really confident that you can get away with it without alienating the dealer or having her rat you out to the pit. Such techniques are useless in those casinos that use a notch on the shoe or discard rack to standardize the cut, but many blackjack games still leave room for dealer-discretionary penetration.

One trick I use is borrowed from Ian Anderson’s Burning the Tables in Las Vegas: In double deck games I tell the dealer that “today is my brother’s 29th birthday, so please place the shuffle card 29 cards from the bottom”. In shoe games, “my brother” is 46, so I ask that the card be placed 46
cards from the bottom, “for luck,” I add. I place a toke bet out as I insert the cut card and demonstrate the penetration I desire, and proclaim, “Let’s make some money.”

If the dealer balks, I add conspiratorially, “Just get as close as you can.”

Often times all it takes is to ask in an innocent, unabashed way. Occasionally a dealer is only too happy to place the cut card deeper. “Mums the word,” I quip with a wink.

xxxxxxxxxxxx

 

[rdorange]

Asked to miss the notch....

ZG Interview - page 18:

What are some of the ploys you use to induce the dealers to give you better penetration?

Inducing better penetration is a subtle art and should be attempted only if you’re really confident that you can get away with it without alienating the dealer or having her rat you out to the pit. Such techniques are useless in those casinos that use a notch on the shoe or discard rack to standardize the cut, but many blackjack games still leave room for dealer-discretionary penetration.

I once asked a dealer if she could miss the notch? NNNNOOOOO!!!!!
I asked if she rolled the card in quickly, would it really be noticed? Come on, we're talking about a minute little notch. If she doesn't make it obvious, whats there to notice in a two deck game? Especially with only one player at the table!
She was afraid of the trouble she would get in. I didn't push it any further cause she was obviously in fear for her job, which she also obviously needed. After the refusal I didn't play much longer. As a matter of fact, when she left to go on break, I left, just in case she said something!