Getting staked?

[halcyon1234]

I've been dealing with a fairly small bankroll for a while, and haven't really been able to do much with it. Any decent spread carries such a high ROR that I might as well be playing the Sucker Wheel.

I was thinking of looking into getting staked in a proper bj game. I know that given the right odds, my brother and his friends would be able to kick in some.

The question is, what numbers should I be looking at?

I figure that I'd offer a "you get your stake back, win or lose. If I win, you get x% of my winnings". But the trick is, what should the value of x be so that it will a) still give me a +EV (I'm not giving back more than I'd win with a smaller spread using my existing bankroll) and b) is high enough to entice stakers to fork over some of their cash.

At this exact moment, I have $300, and I'm looking at, at least, a $15 - $300 (1 - 20) spread. I'd LOVE to have $10,000 which would be a near zero ROR. A 0.1% ROR would be good. 10% would probably be too high (???).

What do you guys think?

 

[ScottH]

I've been dealing with a fairly small bankroll for a while, and haven't really been able to do much with it. Any decent spread carries such a high ROR that I might as well be playing the Sucker Wheel.

I was thinking of looking into getting staked in a proper bj game. I know that given the right odds, my brother and his friends would be able to kick in some.

The question is, what numbers should I be looking at?

I figure that I'd offer a "you get your stake back, win or lose. If I win, you get x% of my winnings". But the trick is, what should the value of x be so that it will a) still give me a +EV (I'm not giving back more than I'd win with a smaller spread using my existing bankroll) and b) is high enough to entice stakers to fork over some of their cash.

At this exact moment, I have $300, and I'm looking at, at least, a $15 - $300 (1 - 20) spread. I'd LOVE to have $10,000 which would be a near zero ROR. A 0.1% ROR would be good. 10% would probably be too high (???).

What do you guys think?

I like a ROR of about 1%, maybe 2. Instead of having a .1% ROR, increase your stakes and have a 2% ROR. That's what I would do.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

I've been dealing with a fairly small bankroll for a while, and haven't really been able to do much with it. Any decent spread carries such a high ROR that I might as well be playing the Sucker Wheel.

I was thinking of looking into getting staked in a proper bj game. I know that given the right odds, my brother and his friends would be able to kick in some.

The question is, what numbers should I be looking at?

I figure that I'd offer a "you get your stake back, win or lose. If I win, you get x% of my winnings". But the trick is, what should the value of x be so that it will a) still give me a +EV (I'm not giving back more than I'd win with a smaller spread using my existing bankroll) and b) is high enough to entice stakers to fork over some of their cash.

At this exact moment, I have $300, and I'm looking at, at least, a $15 - $300 (1 - 20) spread. I'd LOVE to have $10,000 which would be a near zero ROR. A 0.1% ROR would be good. 10% would probably be too high (???).

What do you guys think?

I think you're making some serious errors.

1. You say "you get your stake back, win or lose." How are you going to pay the stake back if you lose it? If you have a way of getting that money, why do you need someone else to stake you?

2. $10K brings you to a hell of a lot more than "near zero" RoR in a $15-$300 game. Using my ape instincts only, I'm guessing it will be 20-25% absolute, but someone is probably calculating it right now.

Sounds to me like you need to get a lot more experience before you start playing with that kind of a spread. Recommend you save up your BR, find the best games you can and strike out on your own for a while.

 

[shadroch]

If you are going to return the money,win or lose, you might as well just take a low interest cash advance or loan for the money.
But it sounds like you aren't anywhere close to the point of being a successful AP. Sorry,but thats the impression I'm getting.First you crawl,then you walk,then you run,then you fly.

 

[halcyon1234]

Thanks for the feedback, guys.

Yeah, I realized that after I posted, the ROR numbers didn't sound right. I've since found QFit's ROR calculator, and will be studying it religously.

As for the "pay back win/lose", I guess that was a misconception on my end. I've staked my brother through some juicy poker games in the past, and have always got the win/lose deal. It's always been so that he can go into the game with a larger stack, and didn't have enough money on hand at the time. I realize now that BJ is much different than poker in that a) there's always a juicy game around and b) the returns are different.

I can afford to pay back loses since I'll have the money, just not all at once. You are right, though, that I should just save it all up at once, and go for it when I have enough. (Or find someone who is willing to accept the loss of their stake if I lose...)

For the moment, I'll continue BS drilling, practicing my counting with my Christmas present (a beautiful dealer's shoe), and bonus whoreing to build up my bankroll.

Again, thanks for the constructive criticisim.

 

[zengrifter]

The usual split is 50-50 investor(s)/player(s), and investor(s) take the risk of monetary loss. zg

 

[NDN21]

I can afford to pay back loses since I'll have the money, just not all at once. You are right, though, that I should just save it all up at once, and go for it when I have enough. (Or find someone who is willing to accept the loss of their stake if I lose...)

Flawed thinking, if you could save it up all at once it wouldn't be saving. Saving takes time.

I don't think you have thought this being staked thing through enough.

You said that your brother has given this win/lose option to you several times, right?

staked my brother through some juicy poker games in the past, and have always got the win/lose deal.

The optimum play would be to give your brother your money and let him deal with the risk. You did say that if the gambler lost then the investor would be guaranteed to get all their money back.

Give your brother your money and let him take the risk by playing poker. If he loses then you get all your money back, right? (from the scenario you presented) And if he wins then you get a %, right? Then you can't lose, at worst you break even, if everything plays out like you said.

Give your brother what money you have now and you practice at home and save up for your session. If you win then all of it is yours. Gambling with future earnings, savings, wages, etc. is not the thing to do.

 

[jomoats]

Percentage of bankroll

Thanks for the feedback, guys.

Yeah, I realized that after I posted, the ROR numbers didn't sound right. I've since found QFit's ROR calculator, and will be studying it religously.

As for the "pay back win/lose", I guess that was a misconception on my end. I've staked my brother through some juicy poker games in the past, and have always got the win/lose deal. It's always been so that he can go into the game with a larger stack, and didn't have enough money on hand at the time. I realize now that BJ is much different than poker in that a) there's always a juicy game around and b) the returns are different.

I can afford to pay back loses since I'll have the money, just not all at once. You are right, though, that I should just save it all up at once, and go for it when I have enough. (Or find someone who is willing to accept the loss of their stake if I lose...)

For the moment, I'll continue BS drilling, practicing my counting with my Christmas present (a beautiful dealer's shoe), and bonus whoreing to build up my bankroll.

Again, thanks for the constructive criticisim.

An alternative would be to play a low minimum table and bet 10% of your bankroll on all plus counts and the minimum bet at all other times. $300 isn't much and if you lose it you'll probably play again with another small bankroll duplicating the cycle. So you would only have two bet levels. The minimum and 10% of whatever is left.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

An alternative would be to play a low minimum table and bet 10% of your bankroll on all plus counts and the minimum bet at all other times. $300 isn't much and if you lose it you'll probably play again with another small bankroll duplicating the cycle. So you would only have two bet levels. The minimum and 10% of whatever is left.

There's something to be said for that kind of strategy. Playing undercapitalized isn't fun, but on the other hand you have a lot less to lose. It might be a good thing for an inexperienced player to do, because after the inevitable rookie mistakes it gives you time to go back and reflect on what happened with minimal harm done.

 

[halcyon1234]

There's something to be said for that kind of strategy. Playing undercapitalized isn't fun, but on the other hand you have a lot less to lose. It might be a good thing for an inexperienced player to do, because after the inevitable rookie mistakes it gives you time to go back and reflect on what happened with minimal harm done.

Hrm, that's a good suggestion. I'm planning a Fallsview trip this Thursday, and should have at least $300 on hand from bonuswhoring. (I still feel like I should be wearing a miniskirt and haltertop everytime I write that =) ). If I can find a non-CSM $15 table, I'll give it a go. I'll be sure to do some wonging while I'm at it.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Hrm, that's a good suggestion. I'm planning a Fallsview trip this Thursday, and should have at least $300 on hand from bonuswhoring. (I still feel like I should be wearing a miniskirt and haltertop everytime I write that =) ). If I can find a non-CSM $15 table, I'll give it a go. I'll be sure to do some wonging while I'm at it.

Whoa, not that undercapitalized! Here's the problem with $300- you get a big bet down, and you have to split a couple of times, then double down- wait you can't! Your advantage depends on being able to do those things, so you could easily end up playing without an advantage. At a $15 game better think about $1000 as a bare minimum to have in your pocket. Be prepared to lose it all.