Going to the casino tomorrow. Questions on basic strategy.

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redlinegts85

Member
Been using basic strategy for a few weeks now and I've been winning (although not that much), so I'm still a rookie. I just printed out a chart from the website and I had a couple questions.

1. Why would you split two 9's if the dealer shows a 8 or 9 face card, but if they show a 7 then you would stand? If I'm going to split when they are showing an 8 or 9, why wouldn't I split if they are showing a 7?

2. If I had an ace, 8...why would I double down if the dealer shows a 6, but stand if they show any other card besides a 6?

Thanks for any input.
 
KenSmith

KenSmith

Administrator
Staff member
redlinegts85 said:
Been using basic strategy for a few weeks now and I've been winning (although not that much), so I'm still a rookie. I just printed out a chart from the website and I had a couple questions.

1. Why would you split two 9's if the dealer shows a 8 or 9 face card, but if they show a 7 then you would stand? If I'm going to split when they are showing an 8 or 9, why wouldn't I split if they are showing a 7?
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When the dealer has a 7 up, your pat 18 has a good chance of beating a pat dealer 17. That makes the math work better to stand against a dealer 7 rather than split.

2. If I had an ace, 8...why would I double down if the dealer shows a 6, but stand if they show any other card besides a 6?
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That play is only appropriate for some rule conditions. (Any single deck game, or multi-deck games where the dealer hits soft 17.)

It's hard to give a specific reason why doubling A8v6 is appropriate while doubling A8v5 is not. That's true of many basic strategy close calls. If you really feel the need for an explanation, how's this? In a six-deck H17 game, the dealer will bust with a 6 up 44% of the time. With a 5 up he'll only bust 42% of the time.

In general, don't worry too much about the "why" of basic strategy, and just learn the "what". Intuition is a poor guide for blackjack strategy.
 
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callipygian

Well-Known Member
redlinegts85 said:
1. Why would you split two 9's if the dealer shows a 8 or 9 face card, but if they show a 7 then you would stand? If I'm going to split when they are showing an 8 or 9, why wouldn't I split if they are showing a 7?
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There's an added chance that dealer will have a ten underneath and end with a 17, in which case your 18 will win if you stand.

redlinegts85 said:
2. If I had an ace, 8...why would I double down if the dealer shows a 6, but stand if they show any other card besides a 6?
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Soft 19 is a good hand, so standing in general is better than hitting. However, against dealer 6, which is really weak, you can press your advantage by doubling. You will actually win less often if you double - but you have double the money on the table, so you'll win more in the long run.

Soft 19 vs. dealer 6
Standing: +0.45
Doubling: +0.23
Hitting: +0.23

So if you stand, you can expect to win 45 cents for every dollar you're betting. If you double, you can expect to win 23 cents for every dollar you're betting - but your bet is doubled, so you win 46 cents for every dollar you originally bet.

Soft 19 vs. dealer 5
Standing: +0.44
Doubling: +0.20
Hitting: +0.20

In this case, standing makes the most sense, because doubling will only earn you 40 cents on average.

Edit: Beaten like a dusty rug.
 
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redlinegts85

Member
Awesome, thanks guys. So I'm guessing the basic strategy is based off tons and tons of played hands?

I will take your advice and just follow the chart no matter how I feel about a certain situation.
 
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callipygian

Well-Known Member
redlinegts85 said:
So I'm guessing the basic strategy is based off tons and tons of played hands?
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Yes.

Make sure that you get the right set of rules. Basic strategy when Dealer Hits Soft 17 (H17) is different than when Dealer Stands on Soft 17 (S17), for instance.

And if the dealer gives you advice contrary to basic strategy, trust basic strategy. Knowing how to play the game is not a requirement for being a dealer, and they're often wrong on the tough decisions. The three most common plays that will cause a dealer to give you bad advice, in my opinion:

HIT soft 18 vs. dealer 9, 10, A
DOUBLE soft 19 vs. dealer 6 if dealer hits soft 17
SURRENDER hard 17 vs. dealer A if dealer hits soft 17
SPLIT 66 vs. dealer 3-6 (also against dealer 2 if doubling after splitting is allowed)

Edit: M*****f*****, I type slowly ...
 
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GeorgeD

Well-Known Member
redlinegts85 said:
Awesome, thanks guys. So I'm guessing the basic strategy is based off tons and tons of played hands?

.
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Two words: Computer Simulations.

redlinegts85 said:
A
I will take your advice and just follow the chart no matter how I feel about a certain situation.
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Good idea.

So is getting the correct strategy.
Are you sure about that A-8 VS 6? I think that's only in a H17 game.
 
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Canceler

Well-Known Member
redlinegts85 said:
So I'm guessing the basic strategy is based off tons and tons of played hands?
Click to expand...
It's actually done with combinatorial analysis (CA), which takes into account everything that can possibly happen.

redlinegts85 said:
I will take your advice and just follow the chart no matter how I feel about a certain situation.
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Good choice! :)
 
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redlinegts85

Member
I want to make sure that I have the right chart. This is what I know about my local casino:

1. There are either 6 or 8 decks. I noticed that the charts don't change at all between the 6 deck and 8 deck chart, so this shouldn't matter.

2. Dealer must hit on soft 17. It says right on the table.

3. I'm not sure about the "surrender" or "peek" stuff. If someone could explain that to me then I'm sure I will know if my casino does that or not.
 
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shadroch

Well-Known Member
No peek means that the dealer doesn't look at his hole card until everyone has played their hands. If he has BJ,and you split or doubled down,you might lose both bets. Very important to find out about this.
Surrender means you can surrender your hand for a loss of half your bet. It's usually only on your first two cards,and only after the dealer checks for BJ.
 
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redlinegts85

Member
shadroch said:
No peek means that the dealer doesn't look at his hole card until everyone has played their hands. If he has BJ,and you split or doubled down,you might lose both bets. Very important to find out about this.
Surrender means you can surrender your hand for a loss of half your bet. It's usually only on your first two cards,and only after the dealer checks for BJ.
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When they show a face card ACE, they look at their other card to see if they have blackjack.

If they don't show a face card ACE, then they don't look at their other card until everyone has played their hands.

Give that, should I say that it is "peek" or "no peek" then?

I know for sure there is no surrender.
 
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shadroch

Well-Known Member
You need to find out if the dealer is showing a ten and you split or double down-do you lose both bets or just the original. Obviously, losing just your original is better.
 
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redlinegts85

Member
shadroch said:
You need to find out if the dealer is showing a ten and you split or double down-do you lose both bets or just the original. Obviously, losing just your original is better.
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If I split or double down and lose the hand then I would lose both bets. I'm just confused as to what "peek" means. The dealer looks at the hole card BEFORE anyone plays their hand IF the dealer has an ACE face card. Other than that, the dealer does not look at the hole card until everyone has played the hand (hit, stand, etc.).
 
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shadroch

Well-Known Member
You are not following me.

In most casinos,if you split against a ten or double down against a ten, if the dealer has BJ you lose only your original bet.
If,under the same circumstances you will lose both your bets,you want to play a different BS than the normal multi-deck chat suggests.
 
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shadroch

Well-Known Member
Click the top of the page,where the Face is. When you go to the home page,click the BS engine. You can generate the chart for peek( you lose only your original bet) and no peek( you lose both bets)
 
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redlinegts85

Member
shadroch said:
You are not following me.

In most casinos,if you split against a ten or double down against a ten, if the dealer has BJ you lose only your original bet.
If,under the same circumstances you will lose both your bets,you want to play a different BS than the normal multi-deck chat suggests.
Click to expand...

Oh, I follow you now.

I just remembered that the dealer also checks the hole card before anyone plays if they have a 10 or ace. So if the dealer had a BJ then no one would have the chance to split or DD because the hand would be over if the dealer had BJ.
 
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