Good Or Bad

iCountNTrack

iCountNTrack

Well-Known Member
In some casinos , where no peeking devices are used, when the dealer is showing an ace ONLY (if he is showing a 10 you get to surrender early :) ), after the insurance bet is made, the dealer exposes his hole card, in case he has a blackjack he pays people who placed insurance bets and collects the other bets. And in case he doesnt have a BJ, all the players get to play their hands knowing the dealer's second card.

Question: Is this last action a yay or a nay?

Answer will be given at chat tutoring session tonight
 
Deathclutch

Deathclutch

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure how it couldn't be a yay. Is there early surrender vs the ace also? Everything appears to be normal. You take insurance at your index and afterward you get to play some beyond counting.
 
M

Meistro

Well-Known Member
Early Surrender against a ten? That sounds incredible, I didn't know that existed. Would you happen to know what indexes you would use for that? I guess 14-16 are basic strategy surrenders, but what about 13, 17 and 12?
 
SleightOfHand

SleightOfHand

Well-Known Member
Meistro said:
Early Surrender against a ten? That sounds incredible, I didn't know that existed. Would you happen to know what indexes you would use for that? I guess 14-16 are basic strategy surrenders, but what about 13, 17 and 12?
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ESvX is not that huge of a deal. Aces are in the hole a little more than 1/13 of the time. The only additional surrender is with a 14. Surrendering against the ace on the other hand is a lot more valueble since a ten is underneath a little more than 4/13 of the time.

As for the question, I'm not sure how this is bad, it appears to be the same thing as the regular game except for the knowledge of the hole card. But knowing the prof, he's probably trying to trick us :p . Just make sure you know the correct BS for soft dealer hands as they are not the same as hard hands (obviously).
 
Automatic Monkey

Automatic Monkey

Banned
SleightOfHand said:
ESvX is not that huge of a deal. Aces are in the hole a little more than 1/13 of the time. The only additional surrender is with a 14. Surrendering against the ace on the other hand is a lot more valueble since a ten is underneath a little more than 4/13 of the time.

As for the question, I'm not sure how this is bad, it appears to be the same thing as the regular game except for the knowledge of the hole card. But knowing the prof, he's probably trying to trick us :p . Just make sure you know the correct BS for soft dealer hands as they are not the same as hard hands (obviously).
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I'd rather be able to early surrender against the ace, but any information you can get about the cards is valuable.

Puerto Rico has ES10 in some casinos and it's pretty good. You move all your plays down one row: surrender 14 vs. 10 in a neutral count, surrender 13 vs. 10 where you would surrender 14 vs. 10 in a normal game, etc. Also I believe you surrender 8,8 vs. 10 in a neutral count.
 
SleightOfHand

SleightOfHand

Well-Known Member
Automatic Monkey said:
I'd rather be able to early surrender against the ace, but any information you can get about the cards is valuable.

Puerto Rico has ES10 in some casinos and it's pretty good. You move all your plays down one row: surrender 14 vs. 10 in a neutral count, surrender 13 vs. 10 where you would surrender 14 vs. 10 in a normal game, etc. Also I believe you surrender 8,8 vs. 10 in a neutral count.
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Ah, i misumderstood the original post. The question was comparing the value of ESvA compared to knowing the value of having the knowledge of the dealers hole card with an ace up. I think it might be better to have the knowledge of the HC than to have the ES.
 
Automatic Monkey

Automatic Monkey

Banned
SleightOfHand said:
Ah, i misumderstood the original post. The question was comparing the value of ESvA compared to knowing the value of having the knowledge of the dealers hole card with an ace up. I think it might be better to have the knowledge of the HC than to have the ES.
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It would certainly be better to have this knowledge before he checks for blackjack so you can take insurance, but this question applies to knowing the HC after you no longer can take insurance. After that point your advantage is still pretty poor, so on the average I think I'd rather be out of the hand with half my big bet back. Just an estimate, I haven't run any numbers on it.

If you're allowed to late surrender after seeing the HC it makes it a different question still.
 
S

Sucker

Well-Known Member
iCountNTrack said:
And in case he doesnt have a BJ, all the players get to play their hands knowing the dealer's second card.

Question: Is this last action a yay or a nay?
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Let me get this straight. What you're asking is: Would you rather know the dealers' hole card, or would you rather NOT know the dealer's hole card? And you're hosting tutoring sessions on this?

P.S. If this is nothing more than a horrible mis-wording on your part, then I apologize for these negative thoughts I'm thinking about your intelligence.;)
 
S

Sucker

Well-Known Member
NoLuckNeeded said:
Hello, I'm very new on BJ, but I love it & I'm trying to learn new rules & strategies.
Would you mind to explain what a yay/nay is?
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Welcome to the forum!

He's asking: "Is this a GOOD thing, or is this a BAD thing?"
 
iCountNTrack

iCountNTrack

Well-Known Member
Sucker said:
Let me get this straight. What you're asking is: Would you rather know the dealers' hole card, or would you rather NOT know the dealer's hole card? And you're hosting tutoring sessions on this?

P.S. If this is nothing more than a horrible mis-wording on your part, then I apologize for these negative thoughts I'm thinking about your intelligence.;)
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Thanks for the thoughtfullness but if you were at the tutoring you would understand better. I will post the detailed response later.
 
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Deathclutch

Deathclutch

Well-Known Member
k_c said:
On a side note, I believe the strategy for 8,8 versus 10 or ace in the above link should display RP and not RH.
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You're right. If it was a H17 game you'd also surrender, not hit or split.

Edit: nevermind. There'd never be a time where you couldn't early surrender, get 8,8 and then be able to late surrender.
 
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