Hard 16 vs. 10

[darrislance]

I was playing a SD, DOA, no DAS, H17, and unfortunately I drew a couple 16 vs. the dealer's 10. I hit just as basic strategy calls for, busting both hands. Then dealer then offered some advice. She said, "In a SD game, you should never hit hard 16 vs. dealer's 10." I ignored the advice and went on my way. Later that day, playing the same rules, at a different casino two other dealer's offered the same advice. One particular dealer even mentioned that some BS says hit 16 while other BS says to stand on 16 vs. a dealer's 10.

Has anyone ever seen a BS chart that says to stand on a hard 16 vs. 10? I personally have not.

 

[Sonny]

You're exactly right. The decision on 16 vs. 10 is a very close one, but the proper BS will always be to hit. If you are counting then you will know when to stand instead but in general you are better off hitting.

-Sonny-

 

[mgcasinos]

You are right!

I have never seen a BS chart that says to stand on a hard 16 vs. 10.

But this is really a vague situation.

It seems that the house edge is 50% here, stand,? hit? neither will be the answer.


My decision is according to my counting.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

You are right!

I have never seen a BS chart that says to stand on a hard 16 vs. 10.

But this is really a vague situation.

It seems that the house edge is 50% here, stand,? hit? neither will be the answer.


My decision is according to my counting.

There are composition-dependent strategies that call for standing on 16 vs. 10. In a SD game I believe you stand on 16 vs. 10 if your 16 is on 3 or more cards. But comp-dependent isn't Basic Strategy, and not very important for a counter who is using the count anyway.

 

[dacium]

It all depends how techinically you want to get.

3 cards stand.

But more exactally, any hand with a 4 or 5 is stand, even at count zero.

 

[QFIT]

Theoretically, stand on three or more cards or after a Split. But, flipping a coin is about as effective.

 

[jimpenn]

Blackjack Bluebook II...Book by Fred Renzey

"Composition-Sensitive" hands...Fred Renzey's book page 88/89. Buy a copy of Book, "Blackjack Bluebook II" The "Rule of 45" ..."Against a 10 UP, IF YOUR 16 CONTAINS ANY 4's or 5's-STAND."

One of the best books that I have read on blackjack.

 

[ace1]

I suppose that makes some sense...:eyepatch:

 

[EasyRhino]

Do any of these composition dependent come into play for shoe games?

 

[ScottH]

Do any of these composition dependent come into play for shoe games?

No. I think the composition rules only apply for single deck games.

 

[jimpenn]

In Renzey's Book it says the 45 Rule applies to shoe games. In addition, check the board at the time and see if any additional 4's or 5's are out because I know it is a close call and this may help in determining if you want to take the hit.

 

[ScottH]

In Renzey's Book it says the 45 Rule applies to shoe games. In addition, check the board at the time and see if any additional 4's or 5's are out because I know it is a close call and this may help in determining if you want to take the hit.

Honestly, it's not even worth the extra effort to look around the table and count the 5's...

 

[Serendib]

Why? Is it because the difference in terms of EV is very small?

 

[EasyRhino]

Over at blackjackforumonline there was an old thread between Arnold and MathProf that you should stand on multihand 16 v 10 unless there are more 6's than 5's on the table.

I enjoy it just because it's so convoluted, and it also makes me look ploppier. However, if it's a bad strategic play I don't want to futz with it.

 

[ScottH]

Why? Is it because the difference in terms of EV is very small?

Yes, the difference in EV is too small to justify even the small effort of counting fives.

 

[dacium]

No the 46 rule even applies if you get 16 on the first hand of a 6 deck shoe. Its just enough to push over.

In single deck its massive and composition dependant can save you 0.3% or more on some single deck games.

 

[ScottH]

No the 46 rule even applies if you get 16 on the first hand of a 6 deck shoe. Its just enough to push over.

In single deck its massive and composition dependant can save you 0.3% or more on some single deck games.

Well if you think .3% is massive, then you will be excited to hear that actual card counting can give you an ENORMOUS 1-2%.

 

[sagefr0g]

Well if you think .3% is massive, then you will be excited to hear that actual card counting can give you an ENORMOUS 1-2%.

right we don't have much of an advantage as counters but compare that to the 'pain' experienced when playing against the house edge of 0.5% while using basic strategy until the count gets good enough to bet up or if you are playing all and the count is negative enough to give the house 1-2%.

best regards,
mr fr0g

 

[dacium]

Eitherway once you get down to 0.01% its completely meaningless. Refer to topic about online blackjack that gives a 0.1% PLAYER edge. When you work it out you have to gamble litterally millions of units just to have a high % chance of seeing a difference. With 16v10 stand or hit the difference is practically unnoticeable until well beyond 20 million hands in the sims ive done.

 

[dacium]

10 6 vs 10 hit
===================================
Won: 1.869974583247E-001 (18.70%)
Push: 5.518781701081E-002 (5.52%)
Lost: 1.938253160149E-001 (19.38%)
Bust: 5.639894086496E-001 (56.40%)
===================================
Bets: 1.000000000000E+000 (100.00%)
EV: -5.708172663397E-001 (-57.082%)
===================================
2890 Possibilities computed in 0 seconds

10 6 vs 10 stand
===================================
Won: 2.116957684136E-001 (21.17%)
Lost: 7.883042315864E-001 (78.83%)
===================================
Bets: 1.000000000000E+000 (100.00%)
EV: -5.766084631729E-001 (-57.661%)
===================================
289 Possibilities computed in 0 seconds

8 5 3 vs 10 hit
===================================
Won: 1.828157584857E-001 (18.28%)
Push: 5.483235517969E-002 (5.48%)
Lost: 1.936941596964E-001 (19.37%)
Bust: 5.686577266382E-001 (56.87%)
===================================
Bets: 1.000000000000E+000 (100.00%)
EV: -5.795361278489E-001 (-57.954%)
===================================
2890 Possibilities computed in 0 seconds

8 5 3 vs 10 stand
===================================
Won: 2.121301553572E-001 (21.21%)
Lost: 7.878698446428E-001 (78.79%)
===================================
Bets: 1.000000000000E+000 (100.00%)
EV: -5.757396892855E-001 (-57.574%)
===================================
289 Possibilities computed in 0 seconds

88 vs 10 Split Once DAS
===================================
Double Won: 7.310844447230E-002 (7.31%)
Won: 5.281378047122E-001 (52.81%)
Double Push: 9.750555196414E-003 (0.98%)
Push: 1.738895152491E-001 (17.39%)
Double Lost: 6.037640570304E-002 (6.04%)
Lost: 6.602235909149E-001 (66.02%)
Bust: 4.168437808492E-001 (41.68%)
===================================
Bets: 1.922330097097E+000 (192.23%)
EV: -5.234654895134E-001 (-52.347%)
===================================
99241444 Possibilities computed in 93 seconds