Heat for losers?

[Dopple]

It happens to all of us. We drop $100 or $1,000 for an hour before things come around.

After one hour loosing I don't want to pick up and go because I have used up the counters normal one hour suggested time limit. I want to stay at the same place and try to get my money back and maybe make a couple bucks.

If you have been loosing right of the bat I think that should buy you some time. They may be watching you a little but you are behind.

Comments?

 

[21forme]

Don't extend your stay to try to make it back. It's a good thing for a casino to record a loss for you. If you win every time, that by itself raises red flags.

BTW, I've been backed off while down.

 

[EasyRhino]

2/3 of my backoffs have been while down.

If the casino is smart about evaluation, it's not winning or losing that is going to get you burned, it's time. They have longer to observe and clock your play.

I'll also vouch that giving the casino some losses can do wonders for your image.

 

[Ferretnparrot]

They definately dont care weather you winning or losing, i seen a dealer give me and evil eye while informing a floorperson that i just "dropped liek 2000 dollars"

Try to look at your playing time as expected value that at some time in the future wether it be on your next trip or a month from now when your losing session ends will be a positive number, so for your hour of play you have x dollars added to you future total sum of all wins and losses.

I used to always stay untill i had won all my money back, but its anoying when you have to play 16 hours straight to do so. Its so much easier to play 4-5 hours at a time and add all the wins and losses later.

 

[aslan]

The last ten sessions or so I've had the experience of starting out on a down turn. Once it cost me good because I had a small session BR and they busted me. Another time I quit loser because I discovered the rules (not posted) were unfavorable. But the other times I was able to work my way back into the profit zone. You would think that you have just as much chance starting up as down, but not lately!

 

[nc-tom]

It happens to all of us. We drop $100 or $1,000 for an hour before things come around.

After one hour loosing I don't want to pick up and go because I have used up the counters normal one hour suggested time limit. I want to stay at the same place and try to get my money back and maybe make a couple bucks.

If you have been loosing right of the bat I think that should buy you some time. They may be watching you a little but you are behind.

Comments?

Your answer might depend on if it is a place you play all the time or a "once in a lifetime place" If it is one of your regular shops i would not violate the 45 minute rule for any reason there is always tomorrow. If it is a place you might never play again and getting backed off will not cause you problems at other places than I suppose you might try to play longer.personality I never play over the 45 minute to 1 hour rule ever. Will play even shorter sessions if conditions at the table break down.

 

[k_c]

It happens to all of us. We drop $100 or $1,000 for an hour before things come around.

After one hour loosing I don't want to pick up and go because I have used up the counters normal one hour suggested time limit. I want to stay at the same place and try to get my money back and maybe make a couple bucks.

If you have been loosing right of the bat I think that should buy you some time. They may be watching you a little but you are behind.

Comments?

In my experience, which is limited to playing in Las Vegas except 1 trip to Reno, betting low using a low spread is tolerated no matter how long I play. I have even been grandfathered in to using a $5 minimum when the table min was raised to $10 and this has happened more than once. Basically I think the pit thinks I'm nuts, which I probably am. I want to win, but basically I'm playing not to lose. I can count for long periods of time without a problem. My old approach was to employ a full set of indices and just play until I felt like quitting. Actually I feel this might even help the casino's bottom line. When other people notice how patient I am and how unlikely it is that I will ever win much some of them just throw caution to the wind. Sometimes they win but more often they drop a pretty good sum and are quickly gone.

k_c

 

[ihate17]

New counter error and casino joy

Being down and thinking it will buy you time and even worse droping any sort of cover trying to get your money back.

Your money is gone, down the casino drain and best you forget it when that 45 minutes - an hour is gone. Your chance of getting that money back in the casino next door is just as good as your chance of things turning around in your present location.

I also think that their is a percentage of casino types that get an extra kick out of backing off a counter when he is seriously down. The comparision to backing a guy off during a big win and he leaves with your money pales when it comes to both kicking that counter's butt and then when he is seriously down just show the guy the door. Yes, it really can make someone's day.

ihate17

 

[Cardcounter]

It just happened to me!

I just got backed off while down and it was a first backoff from the casino. I have been backed off while down before but that was a second backoff and they already knew my face. Casino bosses should not care if you are winning or losing at the present moment but they should care if you are likely to win or lose in the future. The casinos have a bankroll, a mathimatical advantage, and time to beat you. If they determine that you have the advantage than they will back you off and that is there right. The people who own casinos are not gamblers they are investors and there is a difference. Gamblers never play with an advantage at best they play dead even with the house such as the odds bet in craps. Investors play or operate the games with an overall advantage and they usually win on a day to day basis! Gamblers usually lose in a casino one side is an investor the casino and the other side is the gambler when the gambler becomes the investor and the casino becomes the gambler the casino doesn't like it and kicks out the investor.

 

[sagefr0g]

....... Gamblers never play with an advantage at best they play dead even with the house such as the odds bet in craps. ........

sorry about your back off. hopefully it's just a temporary thing.
but about this dead even for the odds bet in craps. well i didn't know that. i thought the house has an advantage in all the possible craps bets?
can you explain?

 

[rollem411]

sorry about your back off. hopefully it's just a temporary thing.
but about this dead even for the odds bet in craps. well i didn't know that. i thought the house has an advantage in all the possible craps bets?
can you explain?

I don't see how you can play dead even at the craps table either. The only idea I can think of to get the edge at craps would be to get the comps out of the casino and partner up with someone and play the DP/P Line. The only way you would end up losing is with the 12 and you would probably be spotted easily.

 

[Dopple]

I was talking with a guy that played craps for 30 years and I understand there is a way to throw it just right to get 0 side roll and eliminate the 7 out.

Sorry about the back off.

 

[Kasi]

but about this dead even for the odds bet in craps. well i didn't know that. i thought the house has an advantage in all the possible craps bets? can you explain?

The odds bets actually payoff at true odds. In effect the more odds you place the lower the HA will be since maybe 90% of your bet will pay at true odds and 10% at normal HA. Your overall bet will still be -EV but less than making only the front bet. Obviously higher variance lol.

Just like the double-up feature at video poker which also pays even money for a 50-50 proposition. So no house edge on that bet either.

 

[rollem411]

I was talking with a guy that played craps for 30 years and I understand there is a way to throw it just right to get 0 side roll and eliminate the 7 out.

Sorry about the back off.

Ok so your talking about controlling the dice?

 

[zengrifter]

2/3 of my backoffs have been while down.

75% here. zg

 

[aslan]

75% here. zg

I think house must derive a special joy in seeing a counter go down in flames during a losing session. The bastards! Makes you want to beat them even more. But frankly, it doesn't make any sense on their part; what they should be relishing is the fact that a counter is going down on his own. They should reserve their power to bar to times when the counter is in danger of beating them for serious money. But human nature being what it is does not always follow the logical course of action.

 

[Murrow]

The odds bets actually payoff at true odds. In effect the more odds you place the lower the HA will be since maybe 90% of your bet will pay at true odds and 10% at normal HA. Your overall bet will still be -EV but less than making only the front bet. Obviously higher variance lol.

Just like the double-up feature at video poker which also pays even money for a 50-50 proposition. So no house edge on that bet either.

Yeah, the more odds you place the lower the HA. If you're betting with 100x odds, the HA is something like 0.02%. But you need a massive BR to sustain that kind of betting and the extreme volatility of craps. I still love it though :grin:

 

[Knox]

I have not been backed off but the most amount of heat I got was at a low stakes DD place that was giving 75% pen. I got way down but obviously I could win it back. In addition, I got into one of those situations where there was good rapport at the table. So I played way too long and even though my spread was minimal, 1-3 or 1-4 with two hands and well-timed bathroom breaks.

After awhile this ugly ho came from nowhere (above I'm sure) and started beaming the table hard. There was an older guy that had came in and fouled up our little threesome. There was also a whale at the table who was a good guy but getting very lucky and had to be drawing extra attention. After a while they started switching out the dealer at crazy times and giving 50% pen.

Conclusions:

1) No matter how nice the ploppies are, don't make anything but minimal conversation with them, don't let them distract from the mission at hand, you are not there to make friends with anyone, especially a ploppy.

2) KEEP IT SHORT!

3) Be aware that even a poorly playing whale can draw attention to your table that can eventually lead to a full evaluation of everyone at the table. They might also think you are playing in tandem with the whale somehow, especially if you interact with him/her even just for the sake of casual conversation.

4) KEEP IT SHORT!

5) Don't be tempted by free buffets to get a player's card at a place that would never be a "home base" for you or for cover. I am sure my account is now marked for BJ purposes since when I went back it was a different crew but same games on the play as mentioned above.

6) KEEP IT SHORT!

 

[Kasi]

I was talking with a guy that played craps for 30 years and I understand there is a way to throw it just right to get 0 side roll and eliminate the 7 out.

Obviously he didn't know how to do it

 

[Kasi]

I But frankly, it doesn't make any sense on their part; ...They should reserve their power to bar to times when the counter is in danger of beating them for serious money.

If you ever own a casino let me know lol.