Heat heavier than expected

[runningaces]

I've been reading posts on this site for 4 weeks or so, I found some to help me avoid heat in the casino's but here is what I've experienced since 2/1/08.

OK this is my first post on here, I'm not going to get into specific casino's.
I strictly play the hi-lo system, I practiced at home for prob. 10-12 hours over a weeks time, i dealt to myself and also had a friend deal to me. I play 2 hands, but dealt 2,3,4,5 spots during practicing to count. My first live action was at a Indian casino with a 5/100 spread. I killed them my first time out and had absolutely 0 heat. I have only played 2 deck since learning this system 6-8 weeks ago.

OK, I have only played in Vegas since then, 3 trips to Vegas, 3 profitable trips to Vegas, 1 trip to Vegas with wayyyyy tooooooo much heat. I am playing on the strip, I am only playing at a max 1 hour at each casino, if I get up over $1,000.00 I bolt to not try to draw attention. I got the " your just better than we are" last trip, I grabbed my chips and headed for the door at another casino when 3 suits were coming my way. Where i got banned I only increased my spread 4 units ( 50-200) and was only up $500.

Not bragging but I am a math wizard and I have had ZERO problems keeping my count right on no matter the distractions ( dealer talking to me, drink ladies, other players). I think with this movie coming out it is going to make things a hell of alot tougher for the discreet card counters who just want to make some easy money. There are going to be alot of greedy people going straight to Vegas after watching 21. I'm up $28,000.00 in 3 trips which is anywhere between 2-4 days ( 8-10hr. a day).
I need a veteran to give me advice on keeping the heat level lower for me, ask me a question or two about my game and I'll answer. Also, I will not play $5 tables, I don't have the patience, I lived in Vegas I could nickle and dime them that way but I don't so I only see $25 for minimum bet on strip. I wanted to make 150K then quit, I don't think I'll make it that high, the heat is too much, the way things are going I'm thinking 1 more trip. Advice?
Sorry for so long post.

 

[mjbballar23]

I think with this movie coming out it is going to make things a hell of alot tougher for the discreet card counters who just want to make some easy money. .

Let things cool off for a while. Maybe stop playing with a players card if you have been doing so. There are plenty of casinos in vegas so you should be able to play elsewhere in the mean time. By my crude estimation, i would say that with a 25 - 200 spread you have experienced some amazing positive variance to be up $28k. Counting is definitely not an EASY way to make money. Most people dont have the same results that you have had.

 

[runningaces]

Let things cool off for a while. Maybe stop playing with a players card if you have been doing so. There are plenty of casinos in vegas so you should be able to play elsewhere in the mean time. By my crude estimation, i would say that with a 25 - 200 spread you have experienced some amazing positive variance to be up $28k. Counting is definitely not an EASY way to make money. Most people dont have the same results that you have had.

Thanks MJ, I have spreaded larger than 50-200 at other casinos, it was the casino I got asked to leave where I only spreaded 4 units. I did get real lucky at 1 casino where the first damn shoe went +11 and hammered a $500 bet on 2 spots and nailed a bj and winning 20, I didn't get the " checks play" yelled out either maybe because it was the first shoe I played. I'm def. going off strip next trip, and am going to cool off for a month or so.

 

[EasyRhino]

If you didn't know, a 20x spread on doubledeck games would definitely qualify as "aggressive". Hell, it would get attention on shoe games if you're betting big for that casino.

Not to say that you can't get away with it... but you're inviting heat. Keeping on the move would be an absolute must.

 

[runningaces]

If you didn't know, a 20x spread on doubledeck games would definitely qualify as "aggressive". Hell, it would get attention on shoe games if you're betting big for that casino.

Not to say that you can't get away with it... but you're inviting heat. Keeping on the move would be an absolute must.

Absolutely Rhino, I know a 20x spread will bring in the heat almost immediately, it just happened to be the first shuffle I played at the table at DD, and I didnt get any heat thanks to the dealer. But the problem Im having is getting heat over only going from to start most shuffles at $25 to say a $50-75$ on plus 5 and then only going to like 125-150 if the count hits say plus 9 and over. I really didn't expect the casinos to give a damn about a guy that was betting 150. And I'm not stupid, I don't go from 25 right to 150, if for some reason the count go's from 0 to plus 8,9 in one hand I will still backoff a bit and just go $75. Is it just because I was hitting the strip casinos you think? Also, I never throw in a players card, is this a good thing?

 

[EasyRhino]

Some newish counters have mistakenly seen heat around every corner, when it isn't there. I know I have. On the flip side, my backoffs have caught me completely by surprise.

Since you're seemingly attracting pit critters like moths to a flame, I wouldn't sign up for or hand over a player's card*. Sure, playing unrated at green chips or higher is unusual for a player, and a stereotypical counter thing, but the more important goal is to mitigate the damage when you're inevitably backed off (*unless you have access to lots of alternate IDs).

And heat really depends on the individual place. I got backed off from Siena in Reno for $50 max bets (and, cough, a 10x singledeck spread). Slotsafun started preferentially shuffling with a $75 bet. A local Indian joint backed me off with two $100 hands. The other Indian joint waited till I crossed the $300 threshold (and played for too long).

My limited Strip experience has indicated general indifference to bets of a couple hundred bucks at the nicer places. Maybe you're doing something wrong? How is your demeanor compared to that of other patrons?

 

[MAZ]

If you get heat on the strip with that small of a betting level you're doing something wrong. If you don't want to lower your betting units, then playing off the strip will only be worse. The strip can handle much bigger money with usually no sweat. You might want to recheck your game dude, it takes more than math to be good at this game.

 

[Sonny]

Here’s what I would suggest doing:

1) Stop playing 8-10 hours per day. There are only a few playable DD games in Vegas that will handle your action. Either you are overplaying those few casinos or you are playing in casinos that are sweating the money. Knowing where to play is sometimes more important than knowing how to play.

2) Stop playing DD games. The pit crew usually keeps a close eye on their DD games. Even with a great act you will still get heat. You need to start playing other games as well. On the strip you can usually find a great 6D game that is more profitable than any DD game around. The shoe games also offer better cover. The 6D games should be your bread-and-butter while the DD games should be an occasional dessert.

3) Take a good look at your bet spread. You use HiLo but you aren’t raising your bets until +5? You’re only betting 5-6 units at +9? You can’t expect to make much money playing like that. You will rarely see TCs that high, especially in a DD game with mediocre penetration, so you won’t have many chances to make any money. Most people are hitting their max bet by +4 or +5. If you can fix your betting strategy then you will be able to use a smaller spread and still earn much more money while drawing less heat.

4) Stop worrying about the movie 21. It’s only going to make things better for guys like us.

You need to read Blackjack Attack to get information on betting strategies, risk management, cover plays, game selection and much more. You should also read Burning the Tables in Las Vegas for information on cover plays and acts.

-Sonny-

 

[runningaces]

I thank every one of you with your responses and avdice. After thinking about it, I could maybe go down to a $10.00 game and make enough money once in a while. My demeanor at the table is good, I really just try to come off as a tourist who's attending a trade show or convention. As far as 6D I will need to read a good book on how to startegize my betting structure's in this game, so my last question is whats the best book? Or is there something free online to read up on for this. Again thanks you guys. I'm gonna hammer some Indian Casinos for 3-4 weeks before returning to Vegas. I've got at least 3 of them that will be zero heat for at least 2 more trips. I know half the dealers and they would def. tip me off if there is any suspicion.

 

[Sonny]

As far as 6D I will need to read a good book on how to startegize my betting structure's in this game, so my last question is whats the best book?

Most books cover a few betting strategies for the system they teach. HiLo is pretty standard so almost any book will cover it to some degree. If you want specific advice about different betting styles, Blackjack Attack is the best book for learning about different betting strategies and how they work. Also, read through the "Free Resources" thread at the top of this forum. There are several good articles and online calculators that will get you started.

-Sonny-