Help assess these BJ rules

[hitthestiff!]

Just got back from a trip to S. America. I played BJ in several Casinos in Barranquilla Colombia. I found the rules to be incredible. There was a true early surrender with the dealers ACE showing. Also if the player split aces you could than double down on each ACE, so as to have 4 times your original bet. I think that could also be done on 10's and 9's if someone was so inclined to split those hands ( I never split 10's) BUT I am curious, given the ability to double each 10 is there a time when it may be to the players advantage to do that, I.E. 4, 5, 6 up for the dealer?

I actually felt I may have held a slight advantage with these rules. BTW it was a 6 deck shoe and the penetration was probably 4.5 decks. I would up winning about 700 dollars.

Thank you, for any additional info

 

[SystemsTrader]

Just got back from a trip to S. America. I played BJ in several Casinos in Barranquilla Colombia. I found the rules to be incredible. There was a true early surrender with the dealers ACE showing. Also if the player split aces you could than double down on each ACE, so as to have 4 times your original bet. I think that could also be done on 10's and 9's if someone was so inclined to split those hands ( I never split 10's) BUT I am curious, given the ability to double each 10 is there a time when it may be to the players advantage to do that, I.E. 4, 5, 6 up for the dealer?

I actually felt I may have held a slight advantage with these rules. BTW it was a 6 deck shoe and the penetration was probably 4.5 decks. I would up winning about 700 dollars.

Thank you, for any additional info

What are the full rules for this game? Is it double after split, does the dealer hit soft 17? This could be an incredible game with early surrender! I think you might be a little confused with basic strategy (correct me if I'm wrong) but you only split 10's if you are counting and it calls for it, and you automatically split 9's vs 2-6 and 8-9. As for doubling split 10's you will never do it because you are required to have two cards before you can double and the two cards will bring you to 12 or above unless you plan on doubling your soft 21.

 

[SystemsTrader]

What are the full rules for this game? Is it double after split, does the dealer hit soft 17? This could be an incredible game with early surrender! I think you might be a little confused with basic strategy (correct me if I'm wrong) but you only split 10's if you are counting and it calls for it, and you automatically split 9's vs 2-6 and 8-9. As for doubling split 10's you will never do it because you are required to have two cards before you can double and the two cards will bring you to 12 or above unless you plan on doubling your soft 21.

I apoligize hitthestiff I misread your post. I now understand if you split 10's you may double down on the single ten card. This is a great rule and I don't know what the edge would calculate too. I have never heard of this rule before. Just treat the ten or the nines like any other nine or ten and double as your system calls for.

 

[hitthestiff!]

full rules are
double any 2 cards and double off the split is allowed
dealer hits soft 17
6 decks
early surrender
i think you could double down with one card with the 10s and I am positive you can do a double down with the split aces prior to recieving your second card.

 

[MGP]

ENHC? How many times can you split Aces? How many times can you split non-Aces?

To get the exact values might take some work - but one way to do it would be to look at the ev's of AA through AT with an Ace removed. You can then do the calculation manually of the net EV for each Ace (it's the same for both - assuming no further splits are allowed) by multiplying by the appropriate probs of each second card. Then you just multiply by 2 and that's your EV for each Ace if you double, and then you multiply by 2 again to get the net EV for the split.

The calculations get very complicated if you can split more than once.

The faster way is to estimate the way people have suggested by just taking the value of the single card and comparing it to similar total hands.

 

[hitthestiff!]

Your terminology is foreign to me. ENHC? You can only split the Aces one time. Insofar as non aces you can split up to four times. What I did not find out is IF I split tens could I dd on the one card ten but I am thinking that I could since they allowed it for the ACE.

Thank you

 

[MGP]

Does the dealer take a hole card and check for B before you play your hand?

If not - if the dealer gets BJ do they take doubled/split bets or just the original bet?

 

[hitthestiff!]

They do not get a hole card until everyone is done with their hitting, IF the dealer does get a BJ they will take the entire split or dd bets so it is NOT a good idea to split or dd against a 10 or an ace in my opinion based on that fact alone. I would be more apt to surrender splitable 8's and would not dd my 11 against her 10 up. What do you think?

 

[MGP]

Here's the strategy form this site:

http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bjbse.php?numdecks=6+decks&soft17=h17&dbl=all&das=yes&surr=es&peek=no

Which is correct except that 16 vs 10 is RS and you should surrender 4-6 vs A as well (obivously including 2,2).

The net ev for a TD strategy is -0.004%.

I didn't think of this earlier, but you wouldn't double anyways because the EV for each Ace is obviously negative since the split ev is negative. The EV for each ace is simply half the regular EV so if you doubled either or both ace(s) you just increase your expected loss. The EV's for all splits vs A is negative with ENHC so you wouldn't ever do it even if allowed on the other cards.

 

[hitthestiff!]

Thanks MGP, but help me out here, some of the lingo on this site I am not familiar with. What is TD? Is there a lingo link I can be linked up with?

I am uncertain of what you said in regards to splitting and than doubling the ACES and or the 10's. The chart does not cover that. Is there a time when splitting and doubling aces is the right move. I would assume I treat the aces like a normal 11 and start doubling whenever I normally would with an 11 But the 10's are the real question, when is it the right time to split and than double those 10's while breaking up your 20?

I see the expected advantage for the house is very, very low so this looks like an incredible game.

Thanks

 

[ThunderWalk]

some of the lingo on this site I am not familiar with. What is TD?

This is good place to learn some of the short-hand terms used in this forum.

http://www.bjrnet.com/member/bjapr/A.htm

 

[MGP]

Ok - so if you can double your splits pre-2nd card - then you have to assume you'd either double every card or not double at all. I initially misunderstood that you could only double against an ace.

If you can double A's or T's against any upcard - then you would double the cards for AA vs 2-T and TT vs 5-6.

I'm not sure how much of an EV this would add because I'm too lazy to calculate it by hand. Basically you can use the EV tables at BJMath to estimate the gain (http://www.bjmath.com/bjmath/ev/6dh17.htm (Archive copy)). Just add the EV's of the doubled splits weighted by their respective probabilities. The only EV that's not there is AA vs T (0.026636) - it's different because of the ENHC rule.

I'm sure it would put the EV into positive territory though so you might want to recheck the rules and see if you actually understood them correctly.

TD is total dependent.

 

[SystemsTrader]

full rules are
double any 2 cards and double off the split is allowed
dealer hits soft 17
6 decks
early surrender
i think you could double down with one card with the 10s and I am positive you can do a double down with the split aces prior to recieving your second card.

I figure this game to have a positive edge for the basic strategy players at .084%. I used the following rules because you weren't sure of the exact rules. If you could find them that would be great. This is an amazing game with these rules and good counters would smoke this game.
6 deck
H17
ENHC
ES
DSA (double on single aces after split)
DAS