hey guys i'm new to the forum!

TheWuzi

New Member
hey guys i'm new here and i was wondering how long it took you guys before mastering card counting and how long before you started to profit from your hard work and play comfortably at the casinos. i'm also wondering what's the most amount of money you have sat down with at one time without being noticed by pit boss? i'm very interested in learning how to count cards and i would greatly appreciate it if you guys could share some advice to help me get started.
 
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FLASH1296

Well-Known Member
Ordinarily it takes (most people) 6-9 months of study and practice before they approach the requisite knowledge & skill level.

I though that you may have misstated the following:

" ... what's the most amount of money you have sat down with at one time without being noticed by pit boss."

It is not "how much" but "how many" units that is the correct way to view this question.

If you are at a $5 minimum table and you buy in with $500 you will draw much attention. If you buy in at a $100 minimum table with the same $500 you will not.

It is always wisest to "buy in" for modest amounts. Generally about twenty (20) times the table minimum more than suffices. You can always go into your pocket at any time to get more, and generally that creates a picture of a typical losing player. Keeping a low profile is strategically important, as you seem to know.

I always have a five figure sum on my person, but the Pit Boss only sees what you reveal at any one time.

The important question is how big a bankroll do you need to reduce your Risk of Ruin to a manageable level. Most Professional Players such as myself strive to keep that RISK as low as possible. To that end I have a Six (6) figure cash bankroll and bet "green"

The more cash you have at your disposal the better. How much is sufficient? It all depends on your personal risk tolerance and the quality of the game in question; additionally a high skill level must be assumed.

As a rule of thumb I suggest 1,000 units, with a unit being your minimum wager. If the game has very liberal rules, low levels of "heat", and deep penetration, and 2 decks dealt, you can get away with as little as 400 units.
At the other end of the spectrum, if you are playing a shoe game with mediocre penetration and "H17" (Dealer Hits on Soft 17), then you will be well advised to have something on the order of 1,200 to 1,500 units on hand.

Balancing Risk vs. Reward is what "Advantage Players" do. To do otherwise is to gamble. That is not what we strive to do.
 

ihate17

Well-Known Member
On hand vs bankroll

While I in general agree with everything Flash said in his post, having 1,000 units on hand is not one.
I play to a bankroll of well over 1,000 units by choice but that is my bankroll which I view as a different thing as my triproll, and triproll is what I must have on hand.
Flash may well have meant bankroll in his post and if you are on a long playing trip your bank/trip rolls may be the same thing, but for the average guy either going to a local casino for a day or on a weekend trip to Vegas, you need not have your whole bankroll on hand.

On the point of how long before you are really ready. 6-9 months is a pretty good guess but some of us are perhaps slow learners or we just keep adding to our knowledge at a slow and steady rate over the years. In my first 5 years of cardcounting I was a loser in 3 of those 5 years but a slight winner overall. Over the next 27 years, I have had 3 losing years and 24 winning years and two of the losing years were very minimal.

ihate17
 

TheWuzi

New Member
hey flash, i tried to send you a message but i'm not sure if it went through. if it did, then i'm sorry because i think i resent it to you like 5 times lol.
 

shadroch

Well-Known Member
Walking around with $10,000 on you while betting green is foolish.
Posting that you do, and then inviting anyone who reads this forum to meet you,as you have so often done, is reckless, at best.
 

kewljason

Well-Known Member
shadroch said:
Walking around with $10,000 on you while betting green is foolish.
Posting that you do, and then inviting anyone who reads this forum to meet you,as you have so often done, is reckless, at best.
Flash stated that his BR is SIX figures, so that would translate to $100,000 BR while betting green. I don't want to speak for him, but I think he is referring to his total BR. I can only hope his doesn't carry that kind of money around with him on a trip while betting green.

I would like to disagree with his 6-9 month period of learning. Of course this is specutive depending on the time available, but even at an hour a day, basic strategy should be able to be learned in a few weeks. Lets be conservative and say a month. A simple level 1 count like hi-lo or KO should also be able to be learned in a month or two. Just seems like 6-9 months is way conservative.

I do like ihate17's philosophy that we are never done learning. We keep adding knowledge through out the years.
 

imp

Member
Impressive Response!

A lot of interest shown for a new guy's presence, same day and all!

I, too, just joined, this being only my second post. But, being an old guy who started playing casino blackjack one year after Thorp published his first book, I've been "around the block" a dizzying number of times.

A stab at answering Wuz's question: You get good at the game after some months, but you never get perfect. The casinos have thrown in too many variables for that.

But, welcome to this place! imp
 

callipygian

Well-Known Member
FLASH1296 said:
It is always wisest to "buy in" for modest amounts. Generally about twenty (20) times the table minimum more than suffices.
If you're Wonging, about 4x the table minimum is more than sufficient, and gives you a reason to leave the table if you quickly lose a few hands and you'd rather find a new table. ;)
 

kewljason

Well-Known Member
callipygian said:
If you're Wonging, about 4x the table minimum is more than sufficient, and gives you a reason to leave the table if you quickly lose a few hands and you'd rather find a new table. ;)
I'm proud to say that I adopted this move the last time callipygian shared it with the board. Sure beats buying in for 20 units, playing 2 or 3 hands and cashing out or walking away with all those chips when the count tanks. I also get a kick out of the people at the table that are annoyed when I sit and buy in for 4 units, thinking that I'm some shlup with no money who is just going to play a few hands and screw up the almighty flow. lol
 

callipygian

Well-Known Member
kewljason said:
I also get a kick out of the people at the table that are annoyed when I sit and buy in for 4 units, thinking that I'm some shlup with no money who is just going to play a few hands and screw up the almighty flow. lol
I got some awesome comments back when cash was allowed to play.

Wong in at +1 -> $5 cash play -> loss, but count +2 -> $10 cash play -> loss, but count +3 -> $20 cash play -> win, count plummets -> walk away +$5 and hear somebody mutter "lucky moron."

:laugh:
 
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