Hornik's "Mensa Guide to Blackjack"

[insomniac392]

Hello,

I'm new to BJ (and this forum) ^_^ Recently I picked up the aforementioned text after learning a bit of BS online. In Hornik's text, with which I'm sure most of you are familiar, he begins teaching the BS under ideal conditions: 6-8D, S17, LS, DOA, RSA, etc. No problems here... however, when he begins discussing rule variations -- in particular a game under the same conditions but with H17 -- I've run into a problem. According to his BS, a player should *hit* a 17 vs. 7 - A (surrendering against the A, if possible). Every other resource I've seen, though, suggests to stand with a 17 vs. everything (except surrendering vs. A). Who should I trust?

Thanks in Advance,
Kyle Czarnecki

P.S. I'm a math undergrad, so I suppose I could work out the probabilities myself... but I'm also a physics major, so I tend to follow the Principle of Least Action : - P

 

[Cardcounter]

Is the 17 soft Ace-6 or hard 10-7? If it is hard always stay if it soft either hit or double down always hit if doubling is not allowed.

 

[sagefr0g]

Hello,

I'm new to BJ (and this forum) ^_^ Recently I picked up the aforementioned text after learning a bit of BS online. In Hornik's text, with which I'm sure most of you are familiar, he begins teaching the BS under ideal conditions: 6-8D, S17, LS, DOA, RSA, etc. No problems here... however, when he begins discussing rule variations -- in particular a game under the same conditions but with H17 -- I've run into a problem. According to his BS, a player should *hit* a 17 vs. 7 - A (surrendering against the A, if possible). Every other resource I've seen, though, suggests to stand with a 17 vs. everything (except surrendering vs. A). Who should I trust?

Thanks in Advance,
Kyle Czarnecki

P.S. I'm a math undergrad, so I suppose I could work out the probabilities myself... but I'm also a physics major, so I tend to follow the Principle of Least Action : - P

welcome Kyle,
i think you'd want to go by this:
http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bjbse.php?numdecks=8+decks&soft17=h17&dbl=all&das=no&surr=ls&peek=yes
http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bjbse.php?numdecks=6+decks&soft17=h17&dbl=all&das=no&surr=ls&peek=yes

 

[insomniac392]

Is the 17 soft Ace-6 or hard 10-7? If it is hard always stay if it soft either hit or double down always hit if doubling is not allowed.

Sorry, yes, the 17 in question is definitely hard.

~ Kyle

 

[johndoe]

The Mensa author is a moron.

 

[kewljason]

The Mensa author is a moron.

This seems a rather harsh statement to me. Can you offer any evidence to back this opinion?

I am currently on the last leg of a 5 week blackjack trip/vacation, so I don't have access to my blackjack library, but it is my recollection that Joshua Hornik (not his real name I'm sure) claims to be an MIT grad and was a member of one of the mit blackjack teams, who still supplements his income playing blackjack. Of course, as a reader, I have no way to verify this information. Do you know something we don't?

As for the hit hard 17 vs 7-A basic strategy, I must say I did not notice that. It has been a long time since I concerned myself with learning basic strategy, so I usually skip over such sections. Anyone who has had any level of success playing this game isn't hitting hard 17's, I can assure you. If in fact the book says that, there's a very good chance it is a misprint, most likely an error by the editor and not the author.

My mother had several cookbooks published and I can tell you that most books contain numerous errors in the final printing that are not the fault of the author. Blackjack attack contains a number of errors that Mr Schlesinger, ammends by sending a page of corrections with the order. Other authors don't have that luxury.

 

[insomniac392]

As for the hit hard 17 vs a 7 basic strategy, I must say I did not notice that... Anyone who has had any level of success playing this game isn't hitting hard 17's. If in fact the book says that, there's a very good chance it is a misprint, most likely an error by the editor and not the author.

This was my immediate thought as well -- a misprint in the BS diagram -- however, there was also an explanation offered in the text (albeit weak). I suppose both could be a misprint... either way, though, I still feel more comfortable going with the norm and standing.

~ Kyle

P.S. Thank you for all of the prompt replies.

 

[sagefr0g]

This was my immediate thought as well -- a misprint in the BS diagram -- however, there was also an explanation offered in the text (albeit weak). I suppose both could be a misprint... either way, though, I still feel more comfortable going with the norm and standing.

~ Kyle

P.S. Thank you for all of the prompt replies.

what was the explanation for hitting a hard 17 vs 7 thru A?

 

[insomniac392]

what was the explanation for hitting a hard 17 vs 7 thru A?

IIRC (without grabbing the book), he essentially reasons that having a hard 17 in this context is similar to having a hard 16 in a S17 game (where the remaining rules are the same)... he provides no mathematical explanation for this point, though, which is why I said it was weak; I can reprint the paragraph if you'd like?

~ Kyle

 

[kewljason]

This was my immediate thought as well -- a misprint in the BS diagram -- however, there was also an explanation offered in the text (albeit weak). I suppose both could be a misprint... either way, though, I still feel more comfortable going with the norm and standing.

~ Kyle

P.S. Thank you for all of the prompt replies.

Well then it's probably not a misprint. Just bad advise. There is other information in the book that I personally don't agree with. I seem to remember his suggusted bet spreads for 6 and 8 deck games being what I consider too low. But this still doesn't make him a "moron" as johndoe suggusted.

 

[johndoe]

It makes him a "moron" because it's blatantly wrong. He went through all that trouble to publish a book, and attached the Mensa name - which purports to represent the top intellects of the world - and makes a grievous error.

It's even worse than being a moron, because it actively causes damage, making people lose money, and it (further) sullies the Mensa name, making the group look even more like a laughing stock. If I were some official in Mensa I'd ban him for it.

 

[QFIT]

I have not heard anything good about this book, and therefore haven't read it. I will say one thing. Claiming Mensa represents the "top intellects of the world" is a bit of a stretch considering they are only top 2%. That means 130,000,000 people are eligible for Mensa.

 

[insomniac392]

Well, I've been considering returning the book and picking up Snyder's Blackbelt in Blackjack (which I should have got in the first place.

Thanks Again,
Kyle

 

[kewljason]

It's even worse than being a moron, because it actively causes damage, making people lose money, and it (further) sullies the Mensa name, making the group look even more like a laughing stock. If I were some official in Mensa I'd ban him for it.

"making people lose money" -- is someone holding a gun to the reader's head forcing them to play this strategy or play at all for that matter?

"making the group look even more like a laughing stock" -- why? because it contains an error as most books do? It's supposed to be a point of reference!

Anyway, I'm not here to defend hornik or his work. I just go back to what I said earlier. To call him a moron, even based on this error, seems harsh. By that standard Albert Einstein is a moron as well. :laugh:

As for returning the book, Kyle, I would advise that you hang on to it, yet still buy snyder's Blackbelt in Blackjack, as well as Blackjack Attack, Professional Blackjack, and a number of other books. The more knowledge you have available, the better. I find myself refering back to my text's quite often.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

It makes him a "moron" because it's blatantly wrong. He went through all that trouble to publish a book, and attached the Mensa name - which purports to represent the top intellects of the world - and makes a grievous error.

It's even worse than being a moron, because it actively causes damage, making people lose money, and it (further) sullies the Mensa name, making the group look even more like a laughing stock. If I were some official in Mensa I'd ban him for it.

I'm a member, and trust me that Mensa is not a place you want to go to get advantage play advice. Their kind of games are Hearts and Naked Go Fish (a version of Go Fish where the "pond" cards are hidden in the players' clothing, and when you fish you have to gradually disrobe them.) You do not want to mix Mensa with money under any circumstances.

 

[Katweezel]

Kinks

I'm a member, and trust me that Mensa is not a place you want to go to get advantage play advice. Their kind of games are Hearts and Naked Go Fish (a version of Go Fish where the "pond" cards are hidden in the players' clothing, and when you fish you have to gradually disrobe them.) You do not want to mix Mensa with money under any circumstances.

So Mensa like kinky card games and a form of strip poker? How does one get to join up, AutoMonk?

 

[shadroch]

So Mensa like kinky card games and a form of strip poker? How does one get to join up, AutoMonk?

You start by spending inordinate amounts of time in mens bathrooms. Ones along desolate stretchs of interstate highways are preferred.

 

[Katweezel]

Mensa recognition

You start by spending inordinate amounts of time in mens bathrooms. Ones along desolate stretchs of interstate highways are preferred.

There is a highway here that runs East-West through the desert, flat as a pancake for about 1500 desolate miles. All you ever see in the restrooms are long-haul truckies snorting stuff to try to keep awake or the odd kangaroo. Now I wouldn't know a Mensa if I tripped over one. Maybe down here, they are kangaroos because the truckies I saw did not look like Einstein, if you know what I mean. How do you recognize a Mensa? :cat:

 

[johndoe]

"making people lose money" -- is someone holding a gun to the reader's head forcing them to play this strategy or play at all for that matter?

Of course not. But if you're offering advice that could potentially cost people money, you have a pretty strong responsibility to make sure your advice is at least *close* to accurate. Especially when it's so easy to get the correct information.

"making the group look even more like a laughing stock" -- why? because it contains an error as most books do? It's supposed to be a point of reference!

This wasn't a simple error - it was a dramatic, blatant error that would have a tremendous impact on anyone taking the advice, and also one that was easily checked. It's about as bad as claiming 1+1=3.

Absolute perfection isn't possible, but this was hardly a minor error. There really are no excuses for this.

 

[daddybo]

I have not heard anything good about this book, and therefore haven't read it. I will say one thing. Claiming Mensa represents the "top intellects of the world" is a bit of a stretch considering they are only top 2%. That means 130,000,000 people are eligible for Mensa.

You guys do realize that having a high IQ doesn't necessarily make one smart.