How big are your bankrolls?

[justin]

I started counting in June of last year (8 months ago). Last week, I've made a total of over 50k now. My bankroll is 55k with a 100 betting unit, going from 2 to 3 hands when the count is good, using hi-lo with full indices and team play. I was wondering where I stand in relation to other counters and teams. I have no idea how big or small I am.

PS. I just got Snyder's Shuffle Tracking book and am looking to master the art. Any info would be much appreciated.

 

[Tom]

You must be a good card counter who has had lots of luck on your side. How long did it take you to double your first bank of 5K? I wasn't so lucky and went broke losing my first bankroll of $3600 and finally starting to build it back up again. You have been very lucky to turn 5k into 55k. How many hours did you actually put in to achieve this win?

Tom

 

[john]

My bankroll is nowhere near that but hopefully one day it will until then I am just practicing. If you want to learn shuffle tracking, I would suggest CVBJ. It allows you to completely analyze a shuffle. When I first saw what it could do, I was dumbfounded. CVBJ with CVShuffle I mean. You have to get both. E-mail me if you'd like to discuss. I don't have Arnold Snyder's book and maybe we can trade notes.

[email protected]

 

[Victoria]

Congrats on your success! I am no expert in bankroll calculation and I do not know how team play (is the team bankroll much larger?) effects things.
My bankroll is also in the 50K range but my spread is 25-250. At my spread I have had four day trips to Vegas where I have won over and lost over 10K, thankfully more winning trips like that than loosing ones. That experience leads me to believe that spreading from 100 to ?, most of your bankroll could land up being a trip roll and you might have a high risk of ruin.
Like I said, I am no expert at these things, perhaps I should be betting more right now, but I am confortable where I am.

 

[revereman]

I'm in the same boast as you Victoria, although it has sprung some leaks lately. I'm no math expert either, but certainly a $100 unit bettor starting out with a $5k bankroll had a very high risk of ruin. Even at a $50k bankroll, I feel alot better playing $25-250 than playing $100-?. Justin seems to have had an incredible streak of good luck, hopefully combined with some skill. It would be interesting to see the progression (excuse the word) of his building his bankroll, just as the Mayor showed us on a graph. If he hasn't experienced the rollercoaster ride that is AP BJ, he is in for rude awakening in the future. It's not just show up, bet big in the high positive counts, and rake in the dough. If only it was that easy.

 

[justin]

Actually I meant to say I started out with 5k and my friend also had 5k. We were using a 75 betting unit and we up to a total bankroll of 16k when we got crushed and went down to 5k total. I then took on an investor for 30k over six months and paid him 6k in interest, signed contract and everything. This was in mid July. We went to Vegas on our first trip with 200 units (150 betting unit). After having several occasions where we could've lost everything and by late August my bankroll was down to 12k, I started to use 300 and then 400 units instead. There's some really good casinos here in San Diego and I started going about 2-3x a week for 2-4 hours a time. By the beginning of December my bankroll was 44k. Since then, I've made an additional 38k and returned my investor's 36k. My bankroll is at 55k because I qualified for some student loans because I'm an electrical engineering student at UCSD. I've made 50k including the 6k in interest I paid to my investor. And now I'm on my own, employing my friends at times as spotters in Vegas. I've lost over 10k on a single shoe three times and have had winning days of over 8k about 6 times. I've had A LOT of fluctuations but have never lost more than about 250 units. So I have 550 units now (with a 100 betting unit going up to 800 per hand). I'm now looking to play some more areas because I've used 3 ID's already at some Vegas casinos and want to expand out.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Good question. It all depends on how you define "bankroll". If you have a $50K bankroll I assume you don't head out to the casino with $50K in cash in your pocket.

I go to the casino with $1-3K mixed cash and cheques I've ratholed from my last trip, and I play a $15 or $25 game. So you can say that's my bankroll for a single sitting, but it's by no means the total amount I have to play with. But if I lose that amount in a sitting it's a good bet to quit for the night because I'm likely too tired or frustrated to continue playing to professional standards. In my own record keeping I refer to the money I have available in my pocket that night as my stake, not my BR.

 

[revereman]

That make a little more sense, except the part of paying an "investor" 20% intrest for 6 months (40% annual rate). That's not an investor, that's a loan shark. Also, I'm hopefully misunderstanding you, but I hope you're not using your scholarship money to gamble. If you lose it, can you not pay your school bills? In answer to your original question, based on last month's poll on this board (I posted results under stats a few days ago), you seem to be among the high rollers here since most people here have a bankroll under $20,000. At your betting levels, the fluctuations can be mind-boggling. Good luck.

 

[Cyrano]

A few observations...

1) If you had "several occasions where [you] could've lost everything", it shows your RoR is too high.

2)I disagree with the above-post about scholarships. First off, this isn't a scholarship--it's a loan. If you've already paid for school (or you've budgeted for school), this is a cheap way to "borrow" money. My one caveat is, you're getting into a shade of grey where you can easily cross over to letting your bills lapse just to have an extra few dollars to pad your bankroll.

3) I disagree with the loanshark comment too. As an investor, I don't think the interest is so high, especially considering that investor could have lost everything on several occasions, and especially on an unproven counter (notice why he needed to borrow the money)--aka. risk.

4) Lower your betting units or at least Kelly-down if you lose a significant chunk of your bankroll.

5) At 50k, you should have more than enough money to buy a bargain ticket and fly to Reno/Tahoe, Louisiana, Mississippi, or any number of places. You shouldn't be concerned about not having enough venues. Just order Trackjack or CBJN and hit the road. ;-)

Good luck on your endeavor~

-------------
Actually I meant to say I started out with 5k and my friend also had 5k. We were using a 75 betting unit and we up to a total bankroll of 16k when we got crushed and went down to 5k total. I then took on an investor for 30k over six months and paid him 6k in interest, signed contract and everything. This was in mid July. We went to Vegas on our first trip with 200 units (150 betting unit). After having several occasions where we could've lost everything and by late August my bankroll was down to 12k, I started to use 300 and then 400 units instead. There's some really good casinos here in San Diego and I started going about 2-3x a week for 2-4 hours a time. By the beginning of December my bankroll was 44k. Since then, I've made an additional 38k and returned my investor's 36k. My bankroll is at 55k because I qualified for some student loans because I'm an electrical engineering student at UCSD. I've made 50k including the 6k in interest I paid to my investor. And now I'm on my own, employing my friends at times as spotters in Vegas. I've lost over 10k on a single shoe three times and have had winning days of over 8k about 6 times. I've had A LOT of fluctuations but have never lost more than about 250 units. So I have 550 units now (with a 100 betting unit going up to 800 per hand). I'm now looking to play some more areas because I've used 3 ID's already at some Vegas casinos and want to expand out.

 

[wong out]

Playing 1-8 in black with a 50K BR is too risky in my view. The exact ror depends on many factors including your bet ramp and the game you play. A few quick notes from JA's Sim Tables:

A 62% cut DD game (S17/DAS)with a 1-8 spread has a ror of 15% for a 400 unit bank and 2.2 for a 800 unit bank. The ror drops to 8.8% and 0.8% respectively if you wong out at -2. Go downtown and play a H17/No Das game cut to 62 cards and your ror increases to 23.6% and 5.6% in a play all scenario.

In my view anything over 1-2% ror is too risky for my taste but I am pretty wimpy when it comes to BJ and gambling (I keep ror below 1%). I cant imagine playing without a good understanding of e/v and ror for my game of choice. Get a copy of BJ Attack by Don S or order BJRM software tool to help you figure out your ev, sd, score, DI, No, ror and other important paramters.

Hope the good luck continues! I would personally get some of the tools discussed above and cut back on the bet size abit and focus on growing the bank some more before trying black. But to each his own; the worst you can do is tap out.

good luck!

wong out

 

[john]

Yeah, but who wants to tap out at 55K. That would be a really really bad day/week for me. Buy CVBJ or another good bj software and get grounded in the mathematics of the game. I was the same way when I started then I wised up after having some bad losing trips.

check out,

qfit.com

It can analyze team playing games among other things. I don't own the site or get paid for this. I'm just a low rolling red chipper in Indiana. The software is good though and many people recommend it. Besides, if you buy all of it, its 300 dollars and that is one bet on the table for you.

 

[Tom]

You've been dodging bullets.

Losing 10k three times in one shoe!? Something tells me you're overbetting bigtime, it's a wonder you've managed not to go broke yet. You say you also won 70K since the end of august playing only about 10 hours a week at the crappy casinos in San Diego!?

I must say you're the luckiest man in the world that has managed to dodge alot of bullets. Since you're a newbie I must remind you that in the near future it's best to remember card counting is not as easy as picking cherries off a tree.

Good Luck

 

[ZOD]

Congrats on your success so far. But it would be wise to consider resizing your bets. I understand that you are an aggressive player, but with as few betting units as you have, the fluctuation will almost certainly nail you. I keep 1400+ units as my bankroll and I feel most comfortable with 2000 (a good round number.) That may seem pretty conservative to some, but I have a decade or so under my belt and have seen several hundred unit swings many times.

I hope your good fortune continues. But I would guess that the most successful players have much higher unit bankrolls and much lower risk of ruin.

Best,
ZOD