How familiar is everyone with the history of card counting?

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SPX

Well-Known Member
Hey guys. . .

I'm an occasional writer (had one nationally published piece so far) and am working on blackjack-related short story right now. However, while I am familiar with the broad outlines (Julian Braun and BS, Ed Thorp and Beat the Dealer, early use of computers, rule changes, Ken Uston in the 70s, MIT in the 90s, etc.) I'm sure there are a lot of details I'm unfamiliar with.

I'm particularly looking for interesting facts and stories related to the history of card counting and blackjack as well as information on what the Vegas scene was like during the 60s-80s. Truth is, I still haven't had the chance to make it to Vegas and I wasn't even alive during much of that time period as I took my first breath in the final days of 1981.

So any help would be appreciated. . .
 
Sonny

Sonny

Well-Known Member
SPX said:
I'm an occasional writer..
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Then you’re busier than most of the writers I know. :laugh: (Hollywood joke)

I agree about Snyder’s Big Book. It has an incredible amount of information about the history of counting and some of the original characters involved. There are also a few good stories in Beat The Dealer about the “old time” count players. Thorp talks about some of the players who were counting cards long before he took an interest in the game. The stories about Greasy John and “Chinese” Sonny are pretty interesting.

-“Caucasian” Sonny-
 
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shadroch

Well-Known Member
It would be interesting to have Scarnes take on card counting included.The self-proclaimed greatest gambler ever was of the opinion that card counting didn't work,and that that Thorpe was a fraud and a cheat.
 
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eps6724

Well-Known Member
shadroch said:
It would be interesting to have Scarnes take on card counting included.The self-proclaimed greatest gambler ever was of the opinion that card counting didn't work,and that that Thorpe was a fraud and a cheat.
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His history of playing cards themselves, however, is very well researched.
 
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shadroch

Well-Known Member
Scarne was a great gambler and right a hell of a lot more than he was wrong. But he missed the boat on card counting,and how to play BJ in general.
 
S

SPX

Well-Known Member
eps6724 said:
Snyder's Big Book of Blackjack should just about cover everything about the history.
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I've flipped through it at the B&N but haven't bought it yet. I intend to eventually.
 
S

SPX

Well-Known Member
Sonny said:
Then you’re busier than most of the writers I know. :laugh: (Hollywood joke)

I agree about Snyder’s Big Book. It has an incredible amount of information about the history of counting and some of the original characters involved. There are also a few good stories in Beat The Dealer about the “old time” count players. Thorp talks about some of the players who were counting cards long before he took an interest in the game. The stories about Greasy John and “Chinese” Sonny are pretty interesting.

-“Caucasian” Sonny-
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I remember reading some of the stories in Beat the Dealer, but it's been a long time. It wasn't my copy so I might have to order it off Amazon to give it a closer look.

Another question on that topic. . .

Didn't the first edition of Beat the Dealer have some counting system other than Hi-Lo with Hi-Lo being an addition to a later revision?
 
S

SPX

Well-Known Member
shadroch said:
It would be interesting to have Scarnes take on card counting included.The self-proclaimed greatest gambler ever was of the opinion that card counting didn't work,and that that Thorpe was a fraud and a cheat.
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I remember reading in some book by him that covered all gambling games--huge volume, green cover I believe--and he did mention card counting and that it was once effective but had already been rendered ineffective by the addition of new multiple decks, rule changes, etc.
 
Sonny

Sonny

Well-Known Member
SPX said:
I remember reading some of the stories in Beat the Dealer, but it's been a long time. It wasn't my copy so I might have to order it off Amazon to give it a closer look.
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Unless you have an Amazon gift certificate you can almost always get a better deal at Half.com. You can usually find a copy at the library as well, although owning a copy is nice.

SPX said:
Didn't the first edition of Beat the Dealer have some counting system other than Hi-Lo with Hi-Lo being an addition to a later revision?
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Yeah, originally he talked about the Ten Count (Tens/Others) and the Thorp Ultimate system. In the later version he got rid of the Ultimate system and included the Simple Point Count system (Hi-Lo).

-Sonny-
 
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shadroch

Well-Known Member
That might have been one of his later books.After the original BTD came out,he ripped Thorpe and suggested he might even be wearing special lenses and marking cards.
 
The Stork

The Stork

Well-Known Member
Or...maybe the history of cardcounting just need a new chapter. I am currently living my life in the ruines of fremontstreet. I would say be welcome but do not forget to take a gun with you.:laugh:

The Stork
 
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shadroch

Well-Known Member
If you are a healthy adult male and are afraid to walk to any casino on Freemont Street,you might want to think about moving to an assisted living quarters.Please tell me which one you want to bring a gun to? Even the walk from Western to El Cortez is now brightly lit and patroled by Jackie Gs finest headbreakers.
 
Automatic Monkey

Automatic Monkey

Banned
shadroch said:
If you are a healthy adult male and are afraid to walk to any casino on Freemont Street,you might want to think about moving to an assisted living quarters.Please tell me which one you want to bring a gun to? Even the walk from Western to El Cortez is now brightly lit and patroled by Jackie Gs finest headbreakers.
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I've been assaulted on Fremont. Nothing I couldn't handle without a gun, but it is no place to be careless, a lot of dangerous bums walking around.
 
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shadroch

Well-Known Member
Recently?
You should always be aware of your surroundings but my neighborhood in Queens is scarier than Freemont St.From the door of the Western to the door of the Plaza,you are never off camera,and any crook knows it.Especially now that the FSE extends past the Cortez and Cortez is building its new LV Blvd entrance.Beauty Bar and The Griffin usually have a couple of human tanks by their front doors,as well as the Special Patrols Jackie has hired.
I feel safer walking Freemont at 4AM than walking the strip.I'll take panhandling drunks over liquored up frat boys and wanna be gang bangers anyday.My last few times on the strip,I saw more bands of 20something y.o. males out looking for trouble than I had in the last seven years.
 
Automatic Monkey

Automatic Monkey

Banned
shadroch said:
Recently?
You should always be aware of your surroundings but my neighborhood in Queens is scarier than Freemont St.From the door of the Western to the door of the Plaza,you are never off camera,and any crook knows it.Especially now that the FSE extends past the Cortez and Cortez is building its new LV Blvd entrance.Beauty Bar and The Griffin usually have a couple of human tanks by their front doors,as well as the Special Patrols Jackie has hired.
I feel safer walking Freemont at 4AM than walking the strip.I'll take panhandling drunks over liquored up frat boys and wanna be gang bangers anyday.My last few times on the strip,I saw more bands of 20something y.o. males out looking for trouble than I had in the last seven years.
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I got attacked on Fremont a year or so ago. Just an isolated incident, I don't think Downtown is particularly dangerous but like any casino venue it has more than its share of people in various stages of desperation and degradation so you have to take at least some caution. Part of the problem is AP's have a lot more cash on them than the typical Downtown gambler and there's no way to hide that at the cashier's cage. Sort of like on the Boardwalk, it's unlikely that anything will happen to you there on any given night but there are always undesirables hanging around so a little caution goes a long way.
 
S

SPX

Well-Known Member
Basic Strategy History

I've come to a point in my story where my character needs to learn Basic Strategy . . . and I really need to mention some historical details about how basic strategy came to be. I've read the story several times in various books and on various websites, but for some reason they all escape me right now and I can't seem to track them down.

Can anyone help me?
 
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