How to compare 2d with 8d if counting

[techster]

I'm curious. A local Indian casino offers two basic games. An 8 deck shoe has great benefits: Double any cards, DAS, good pen (cut off 1 deck, or less!), and best of all early surrender. According to the basic strategy generator, a very good game. The only drawback is H17.

They also have a two deck game. DAS, double only 10 and 11, late surrender, decent penetration (60-70%, depending on dealer). The BS engine shows it to be less friendly for the player.

So how do I figure in the counting factor. It seems the 2 deck would come out ahead, but how do I know?

 

[Sonny]

It seems the 2 deck would come out ahead, but how do I know?

The most important factor is usually the penetration. In this case the 8D penetration is excellent. Coupled with the good rules I’d say the shoe game is the way to go. Basically, whichever game gives you more profitable hands per hour is the winner. Without checking a sim I would guess that the 8D game is probably the winner.

-Sonny-

 

[moo321]

Early surrender? Early surrender trumps damn near everything. And 85% penetration makes it extremely playable. The double deck game is good, but any game with early surrender rules.

 

[avs21]

I'm curious. A local Indian casino offers two basic games. An 8 deck shoe has great benefits: Double any cards, DAS, good pen (cut off 1 deck, or less!), and best of all early surrender. According to the basic strategy generator, a very good game. The only drawback is H17.

They also have a two deck game. DAS, double only 10 and 11, late surrender, decent penetration (60-70%, depending on dealer). The BS engine shows it to be less friendly for the player.

So how do I figure in the counting factor. It seems the 2 deck would come out ahead, but how do I know?

To give you an idea how much more useful early surrender is vs late surrender
Early Surrender against ace: adds .39% to the players adv
Early Surrender against ten: adds .24%
Late surrender against ten only adds .07

 

[moo321]

And when you factor in index play, early surrender probably adds about 50% to your edge. Without being specific, is this game in the Midwest?

 

[techster]

Actually, the game is in the southwest.

 

[sabre]

You're sure the game offers early surrender? Where the you can surrender before dealer peeks for blackjack?

 

[techster]

That's right--first time I have ever seen it offered. Its amazing that no one else seems to want to use it. I've played at tables where the locals berate me for being stupid enough to give the casino half my bet "without even trying to win!"

 

[techster]

Oh, by the way, you can only surrender before the dealer checks for blackjack if the dealer is showing an Ace. Against a 10 with an Ace in the hole it isn't offered. Is this standard early surrender?

 

[moo321]

Actually, "standard" early surrender is vs. a ten, and it's not worth much. Early surrender vs. an ace is worth about .3% for a basic strategy player, and a good deal more for a counter, much less a hole-carder.