So I've been counting 6 deck with KO and it's going pretty well. As long as I'm late to act with a few players and the dealer doesn't spread 'em too fast, I'm successful. I'm interested in switching to DD, but I'm curious how you can count a hand-held game. You have to count all the hole cards quickly at the end of a hand or at a bust, right? I was hoping maybe someone with experience could give a few pointers on strategy for when to count what cards during a pitch game for someone who is currently seeing all the cards at a time, and counting pairs during the initial deal, and then single cards when a player hits, etc. Thanks for your help.
How to transition from 6D to hand-held?
- Thread starter schismist
- Start date
EasyRhino
Well-Known Member
Well, pitch is indeed different. A little bit tougher, because the rhythm is not as predictable as the shoe.
By the time I finally played a pitch game, I was very comfortable with the shoes. But when I started playing (just heads up or with one other player), it was bedlam. I was using two hands to hold the cards, I wasn't signaling my plays right, and I lost the count several times. Fortunately, this only lasted about 30 minutes.
You sound a little less comfortable at the shoes, so pitch push you over the cliff. But here's some suggestions:
1) Backcount. Watch a game being played, first get a feel for the order of actions, then see if you can keep the count.
2) Start with dealer's upcard (first card you see)
3) Next do your two cards.
4) Next do anyone else's hand you see (BJ, splits, doubles, and peeking). Make sure to mark these as "dirty" in your mind so you don't re-count them.
5) Now count individual hit cards as they are dealt
6) Count any players' hand pairs as they bust.
7) Count out dealers cards as she plays out the hand.
8) Count remaining players' hands as the dealer flips them over (make sure to keep the flipped over cards seperate from their draw cards).
9) If the dealer gets a blackjack, then be prepared to count REALLY REALLY FAST.
It's kind of fun.
The other part that's interesting, but I'm not really up to yet, is "inferring" remaining cards based on other players' play actions. For instance, I had a 16 vs dealer 10. I was right on the cusp of hitting or standing. I realize that none of the players before me had taken additional cards, so they must have had high ones. So I went ahead and hit. I've seen some writing on the subject, but I forget where.
By the time I finally played a pitch game, I was very comfortable with the shoes. But when I started playing (just heads up or with one other player), it was bedlam. I was using two hands to hold the cards, I wasn't signaling my plays right, and I lost the count several times. Fortunately, this only lasted about 30 minutes.
You sound a little less comfortable at the shoes, so pitch push you over the cliff. But here's some suggestions:
1) Backcount. Watch a game being played, first get a feel for the order of actions, then see if you can keep the count.
2) Start with dealer's upcard (first card you see)
3) Next do your two cards.
4) Next do anyone else's hand you see (BJ, splits, doubles, and peeking). Make sure to mark these as "dirty" in your mind so you don't re-count them.
5) Now count individual hit cards as they are dealt
6) Count any players' hand pairs as they bust.
7) Count out dealers cards as she plays out the hand.
8) Count remaining players' hands as the dealer flips them over (make sure to keep the flipped over cards seperate from their draw cards).
9) If the dealer gets a blackjack, then be prepared to count REALLY REALLY FAST.
It's kind of fun.
The other part that's interesting, but I'm not really up to yet, is "inferring" remaining cards based on other players' play actions. For instance, I had a 16 vs dealer 10. I was right on the cusp of hitting or standing. I realize that none of the players before me had taken additional cards, so they must have had high ones. So I went ahead and hit. I've seen some writing on the subject, but I forget where.
I went through this very same scenario when I was learning to count. Started at 6 deck and felt comfortable. Then, hit the pitch and I couldn't keep up! I resolved to come back and keep the count at this game, so I went home and practiced for 4-6 months counting decks down and working on speed while keeping accuracy. I went back to that same single deck game a few months later and I had no problem keeping the count.
Mimosine
Well-Known Member
as others have said pitch is a whole 'nother animal.
but the advice given here is as good as it gets.
i was playing a DD game over the weekend with 0-2 other players and at times you are going to have to be fast on your toes.
ERhino's advice is what you should follow. but be prepared for the following-
Dealer BJ, definitely have to count fast, better with only 1 or 2 other players -- you'll have less cards to count. but you will notice that good dealers will flip over every player's hand slowly, check them individiually so you should have time to count everything. when player's bust, you'll also have to be quick.
the second thing that i've noticed, especially this last weekend was that sometimes players flash their cards by the way they hold them, if they do this you must
a) count them, and
b) remember not to count them AGAIN when they are turned over.
also, the guy sitting next to me would ask me to see my hand in tricky situations, like when he had a 16 v 10, i would happily show him my cards, in return to see his. again in doing so you must remember what is "dirty" in ERhino's words.
if you screw up, either flat bet, or get up, catch your breath and start over.
backcounting really helped me practice before i actually tried it. i actually like pitch better, mostly because fewer people play it.
but the advice given here is as good as it gets.
i was playing a DD game over the weekend with 0-2 other players and at times you are going to have to be fast on your toes.
ERhino's advice is what you should follow. but be prepared for the following-
Dealer BJ, definitely have to count fast, better with only 1 or 2 other players -- you'll have less cards to count. but you will notice that good dealers will flip over every player's hand slowly, check them individiually so you should have time to count everything. when player's bust, you'll also have to be quick.
the second thing that i've noticed, especially this last weekend was that sometimes players flash their cards by the way they hold them, if they do this you must
a) count them, and
b) remember not to count them AGAIN when they are turned over.
also, the guy sitting next to me would ask me to see my hand in tricky situations, like when he had a 16 v 10, i would happily show him my cards, in return to see his. again in doing so you must remember what is "dirty" in ERhino's words.
if you screw up, either flat bet, or get up, catch your breath and start over.
backcounting really helped me practice before i actually tried it. i actually like pitch better, mostly because fewer people play it.
Here I something I have trained myself to do,it wasn't difficult but it wasn't exactly easy.Instead of counting each card I see only faces,aces,eights and nines. If the card is not one of them,it could just as easily be a blank as I'm not looking at what it is.I subtract for an A/10,do nothing for an 8/9 and add one for every other card.As it makes no difference if the card is a four or a six,I don't need to know that information.
With practice,it comes easily.
But I play almost nothing but DD shoe games dealt face up,so I don't use it often in real play.
With practice,it comes easily.
But I play almost nothing but DD shoe games dealt face up,so I don't use it often in real play.