I got my *** whipped

J

john

Well-Known Member
I finally lost after two months of winning trips. This was my first losing trip as a green chip player. I didn't lose the whole trip bankroll, but I lost 112 units. I actually had lost 140 units and hit one on the way home and made 28 units.

It was awful. Absolutely awful. Whenever I had a big bet out, the dealer had an Ace. It was Dealer hits soft 17 so the dealer flips over a 6 of course then hits again and gets a 4. This is just characteristic of how it went. With a big bet out, I either pushed or lost. Most of my insurance bets lost. It was horrible. It was like I was living in an alternate reality where the negative counts are the counts where you win the big money.

I was playing a lot of 6 deck H17, DAS, DOA, No surrender. I want to know what you guys think of the H17 games?

I am starting to wonder whether 1 -12 spread is really enough these days. I think you need a 1 - 16 spread for those H17 games.

Whenever I lose a lot, I like to stop and think about what I am doing.

I did almost win a blackjack tournament. I made it to the final table. One woman told me that I was "unconscious". Whatever that means.

Also, if you had a choice between 2 deck, 55-60 % pen, H17, DAS, DOA, no surrender, resplit 3 times or a 6 deck H17, DAS, DOA, split 4 times, no surrender with 70 % pen. Which would you choose ?

I had a hard time deciding and I think it is why I lost so much. I could spread 1 - 30 on the double deck and get away with it and on the 6 deck, too. I think I am finished for good on 2 deck unless I see 75 % pen. I lost 68 units on 2 deck.

Automatic, how is the full kelly going ?
 
Automatic Monkey

Automatic Monkey

Banned
Hang on it could be worse!

Hey man I've been there. 112 units is not an awful lot to lose, sorry to tell you. It makes you wonder how the cards are dealt, you swear they must be cheating, but that's just perception. Also you like me started out with a long string of wins. That's a good sign, means you've taken to counting like a duck to water, but swings like these and much worse happen to better than us. Read Snyder's bjfonline.com site. He's one of the best ever, and he's had swings that would bankrupt you or I. I have a "virtual" Kelly green chip bankroll (mortgaged my house like an ass) now but haven't had to touch it, also had a couple of nice big winning sessions recently at the Connecticut candystores.

About those games: I don't think I would ever play a H17 shoe game. The only ones I would play are a couple in Reno that allow doubling on any number of cards and that rule more than makes up for the H17. Just about any other venue has a S17 game available so why not play that? Of the two games you described, the DD is the far better game. The other problem with H17 is you have to learn a lot of different index numbers that will have no value in the more desirable S17 games.

Like you, I also notice marginal luck in the DD games and I have a theory why. You and I are used to winning, winning big in shoe games and in shoe your swings are a lot bigger, and your upswings far far above EV and thus memorable. So when we play DD where the counts move around a lot and are not stable, we are actually winning EV but because it's not what we think of as a "great night" (from our shoe experiences) we remember it as a long nasty and minimally profitable drag. Your 1:12 spread should be just fine in shoe. 1:20 is better but try to expand your spread on the low end, not the high, as that is better for your bankroll. It will help a lot if you can Wong out of bad counts, or learn to track a shuffle. It's easier than it seems if the shuffle is trackable.
 
J

john

Well-Known Member
The one on the way home

Even though I lost on most of my 4 day trip. I learned something.

I am trading in my $100 Aldo's for my $20 reeboks. I have to tighten my game up.

It was great on the way home, though. I was there maybe 15 minutes ! It was one of those sit down- oh count bad- hey what's on the next table-- sit down -- wow great - make money- leave.

Another thing. I swear that sometimes the pit boss is going up to the dealers and whispering "counter". I swear it has happened a few times. Or maybe I'm losing it.

I got some room comps. Automatic, I know you've gotten some room comps. Do you count cards at the places you are staying, or do you feel bad about it and go elsewhere ?

You know you've played too much blackjack when during your visit to Long John Silver's you start moving the little ketchup cups like they are chips.

Also, when you are paying for it with change, you move the quarters like they are chips, too. It's wierd.

Also, to make it to the final table in that tournament, I doubled down on a 13 v 6 . I had a max bet out of 500. I got an 8 for a 21. The gusts went out of everyone sails after that. On the last round of hands, I was actually second to last place but that hand moved me in to the winner for the table. I ended up with 2000+ for the table and 2nd had 1100+ . It was a great double down. I was so shocked that I didn't even realize what happened.
 
S

SammyBoy

Well-Known Member
Hi John

Sorry for the run of bad cards. In your post you said - <i><b>Do you count cards at the places you are staying, or do you feel bad about it and go elsewhere ?<b><i>

If I'm playing blackjack I am counting cards, ESPECIALLY at the places that comp my room. You cannot let yourself feel bad about it, trust me, they don't feel bad when you lose. The only time I've ever stopped counting was when several floor people and bosses were watching my table. But I did not play there very long. Best of luck to you and I promise it will get better (Can't say when though).
 
R

revereman

Well-Known Member
Unconscious

I think your last paragraph (doubling 13 vs. 6 and getting an 8) explains why the other player said you were "unconscious."
You have just experienced the roller coaster ride that is BJ. About a month ago we tried to develop an alternative to roller coast ride analogy but we really couldn't. The reason? Roller coaster is a perfect way to describe advantage play in BJ. Some Bible thumpers (ok, we haven't had enough controversy around here lately) say that whatever God gives you that doesn't kill you, makes you stronger. Try having 5 (or 10) more sessions like your last trip and see how you feel about playing BJ and how strong you feel.
 
Automatic Monkey

Automatic Monkey

Banned
Staying where I play

Sure, at my CT candystores they don't give discretionary comps, but I have so many points on the player's cards I can stay over whenever I want. Yes, I've heard them say "counter" too, but they don't do anything about it, rumor has it they don't care about anything under a $100 BU. Heard them say it once where I had spread to 4 hands (which was against the rules) and the PC got really mad at the dealer. Those places are so big, there could be me and 100 guys like me in there every night and they wouldn't even notice the money was missing. If they say "counter" and you're still playing, either a call from surveillance is imminent and you're on your way out, or you are within their limits of tolerance and you're not going to be thrown out. Just my experience.

I'll stay there, but when I'm on the road I usually don't stay where I play, because I don't want to be thrown out of my room if I am ejected from the premises. Also I don't get a player's card on short trips so there's no comps.
 
T

The Mayor

Well-Known Member
Lifetime ***whips

I think a good measure of how much you have played is how many true ***whippings you have had, and survived to play another day.

This is your first. Treasure it!

My last time out, I was playing a R07/R08 single deck game, spreading $10 to 2x$100 (yes, a fantastic game). I was down $3k after the first 2 hours. If I believed in omens, I certainly had one: the second deck played, the dealer dealt herself 4 straight blackjacks ... which is VERY hard to do in single deck.

It's not even an ***whip any more, it's just the game...

--Mayor
 
J

john

Well-Known Member
Why tell the dealer ?

Can someone please explain to me why it is important that the dealer know that I am a card counter ?

Is the pit boss trying to flaunt his keen intellect ?

Trying to sabotage my relationship with the dealer in some way?
 
LV Bear

LV Bear

Administrator
Confused by question

Do you count cards at the places you are staying, or do you feel bad about it and go elsewhere ?

Why would anyone feel bad about it ????
 
Automatic Monkey

Automatic Monkey

Banned
Good question

It could be either of those reasons. More likely it has to do with cut card placement, they may have a procedure in place to reduce pen when they believe there's a counter at the table. This is the kind of thing that will protect the game and not offend or frighten the ploppies like a barring might.

In my opinion, casino is a hospitality business, and the dealer should be doing nothing but dealing and having pleasant interaction with the customers. Dealing with counters is not his job.
 
B

Boston_Jaxel

Member
Cut card

So true. The last time I was in CT, at a hot shoe, the Pit Boss tapped the dealer on shoulder, and the dealer said "What did I do". The PB then said "It's not what you did, it's what you are going to do". Then after they exchanged whispers for about 5 seconds, dealer came back and was cutting off 2 decks instead of 1 on an 8 deck shoe. I guess it's better than heat...
 
V

Victoria

Well-Known Member
an inteligent casino response

to the question of, "what should we do about card counters?"
I have been half or nearly half shoed a few times. The ploppies have no idea that anything is going on, the pit remains as they were (no outward hostility), the house sacrifices the number of hands per hour they can deal and my advantage graciously evaporates with this obvious hint.
I do not see the pit saying anything to the current dealer. It happens when a new dealer comes to the table, more than likely briefed before getting there.

There is no need for them to make a scene and perhaps scare some of their regular loosers.
The counter can continue to play all she wants I think, unless the spread would increase by some huge margin.
If they use an automatic shuffle machine, the amount of hands lost by the casino is not significant.

If I were in casino management this would be my primary action against an advantage player. The other methods used might be employed against teams and the use of a huge spread to offset reduced penetration. So you are welcome to play any game at our casino except blackjack will have a 50% or less penetration in the shoe game.

Victoria
 
Automatic Monkey

Automatic Monkey

Banned
Foxwoods?

That sounds like something they'd do there. Once in a while you can find a dealer cutting those 8 deck shoes down to a deck. Usually they are down around 1.5 decks, and if they are cutting a full 2 I find another table. Over at Mohegan they will cut anywhere from 0.75 to 2 decks out of a 6 deck shoe. A slight advantage, but the shuffle is not as trackable as the Foxwoods one. It's a wash as to which store has the better game.

What kind of stakes/spread were you playing in CT, to get any kind of attention at all from the pit?
 
B

Boston_Jaxel

Member
Foxwoods

I don't think it was directed towards me, I was spreading 1-10 ($10) But another guy at the table was was only betting $10 on neg counts, then betting over $500 when the TC was high. He left after that shoe, but the pen stayed the same, so I left too. I don't think they would even look at me, next to a guy throwing around black like that...

-Jax
 
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