neversplit5s
Active Member
Let's say that a casino is allowing their customers to vote on which option to add after splitting aces. Between the two options in the poll, which one would you vote for?
If you could choose one of these two rules to add...
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blackjack avenger
Well-Known Member
I Call BS
It could be different for a counter.
That's BS?21forme said:
It could be different for a counter.
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zengrifter
Banned
Why have an opinion poll when there is a statistically correct answer? zgneversplit5s said:
This has got to be pretty close, but this figure will be somewhat skewed; depending upon the ratio between the size of your bets and the table minimum.21forme said:
For example, if you're betting $10 and the table minimum is $10, most places will not let you double for less than the table minimum. This means you would have to forego all doubles for less, against all of the dealer's big upcards.
zengrifter
Banned
I think you are right. zgblackjack avenger said:
alwayssplitaces
Well-Known Member
If you can double after splitting aces, you could double for less
neversplit5s
Active Member
About which one affects BS players vs. counters more: While obviously either rule would help both more, HSA probably has more of an effect at low counts (in which you're more likely to get a low card on your ace) while allowing players to double would provide some additional benefit at high counts; in any case when the deck/shoe is ace-rich there would be a tendency for more pairs of aces to occur.
Sucker is right about how whether or not you can double for less (and if you can the minimum double bet allowed in proportion to your original bet) affects the amount of benefit provided. (A casino/table with this rule is one of the few times outside of tournament play that doubling for less can be the right move.)
In conclusion, hitting (but not doubling) provides more benefit for a BS player than the other way around. For a counter it would depend on the "double for less" rule in the aforementioned paragraph and whether or not he/she would be willing to double hands which would draw attention like A9 or AT.
Sucker is right about how whether or not you can double for less (and if you can the minimum double bet allowed in proportion to your original bet) affects the amount of benefit provided. (A casino/table with this rule is one of the few times outside of tournament play that doubling for less can be the right move.)
In conclusion, hitting (but not doubling) provides more benefit for a BS player than the other way around. For a counter it would depend on the "double for less" rule in the aforementioned paragraph and whether or not he/she would be willing to double hands which would draw attention like A9 or AT.
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jack.jackson
Well-Known Member
Isnt there two different variables, when it comes to DSA? Where in one scenario, you double on the stand-alone Ace, while in the other scenario you receive a card frst before givin the option to double. Anyone know?
Personal note(if so) i wonder which of the two is better?
Personal note(if so) i wonder which of the two is better?
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neversplit5s
Active Member
I don't know of any casinos that let you double split aces (or any other cards) before receiving the second one. (If that were the case, splitting tens and then doubling on each 10 would likely become the right move against weak dealer upcards.) As for your second question, if that rule were to exist where you could double on a single post-split ace yes that would be more favorable because you would essentially be doubling an 11 on each split ace.jack said:
It appears the winner is ..........
......... hit split aces.
My new CA has a couple of new things. Among them is the ability to compute hitting after splitting aces, doubling after splitting aces, and doubling after splitting in general independently. Sample data is for a single deck.
Single deck, s17, no DAS pairs 2-10, double on any 2 cards when doubling is allowed, 1 split allowed any pair, no surrender, full peek, BJ pays 3 to 2, full shoe, best (CD) strategy
Overall EVs for following variations re: splitting aces
no hit split aces, no double after spltting aces, no DAS pairs 2-10 --- (+.0248%)
hit split aces, no double after splitting aces, no DAS pairs 2-10 --- (+.1562%)
no hit split aces, double after splitting aces, no DAS pairs 2-10 --- (+.0954%)
hit split aces, double after splitting aces, no DAS pairs 2-10 --- (+.2952% )
......... hit split aces.
My new CA has a couple of new things. Among them is the ability to compute hitting after splitting aces, doubling after splitting aces, and doubling after splitting in general independently. Sample data is for a single deck.
Single deck, s17, no DAS pairs 2-10, double on any 2 cards when doubling is allowed, 1 split allowed any pair, no surrender, full peek, BJ pays 3 to 2, full shoe, best (CD) strategy
Overall EVs for following variations re: splitting aces
no hit split aces, no double after spltting aces, no DAS pairs 2-10 --- (+.0248%)
hit split aces, no double after splitting aces, no DAS pairs 2-10 --- (+.1562%)
no hit split aces, double after splitting aces, no DAS pairs 2-10 --- (+.0954%)
hit split aces, double after splitting aces, no DAS pairs 2-10 --- (+.2952% )
jack.jackson
Well-Known Member
Makes sense. Thanks for the clarification. I was just curious, b/c it seemed like in the past someone mentioned you could double before receiving a card. Your fine explanation, says it all.neversplit5s said:
I was checking this out yesterday and seemed to be having a problem with it. It wouldnt let me check DSA, unless i checked HSA first. Is that normal?k_c said:
Yes, all of my CAs to this point have assumed that in order to double after splitting aces the rules must allow both hitting split aces and double afer splitting. That is why the doubling after spltting aces checkbox is disabled until both DAS and HSA are checked in the program on my website.jack said:
My new CA treats all of these rules independently and that's what I used for what I posted. The website program is only capable of computing HSA and HSA + double after splitting aces. HSA + doubling after splitting aces also requires that doubling after splitting is allowed. It cannot compute the case where doubling after splitting aces is allowed and HSA is not.
alwayssplitaces
Well-Known Member
If you're given the option to double the standalone ace before receiving a card, then you treat it as 11 and always double down.
creeping panther
Banned
Dosa
I have played this feature for years, double on split aces to match bet or table minimum,,and is a super feature, especially when used in a very skilled manor.:1st:
CP
I have played this feature for years, double on split aces to match bet or table minimum,,and is a super feature, especially when used in a very skilled manor.:1st:
CP
EmeraldCityBJ
Well-Known Member
Assuming double for less is permitted, and the minimum double amount is significantly less than your bigger bets, doubling would clearly be the best choice. As the initial bet increases, and the double-down bet becomes a smaller percentage of the initial bet, the additional advantage gained by doubling would be more pronounced.alwayssplitaces said:
If someone has a lot of extra time on their hands or needs a question for their next math party, they could figure out the double down bet size as a percentage of the original bet where hitting and doubling provide the same EV. For extra credit, they could calculate the numbers for every true count in every counting system....