In KO does the PP slowly migrate negative?

[aslan]

In KO does the pivot point migrate in a negative direction the more cards have been dealt? I was looking at the KO to TC conversion chart and it seems that the pivot point is at 9, not 4, with only one deck dealt, and that it slowly migrates to 4 by the time 5 decks have been dealt. Am I misreading the chart?

 

[21forme]

I use a different IRC than you, however, the pivot point is at TC +4 and doesn't change as cards are dealt. The spread sheet, as posted, uses TC +5 at bet ramp 2, which is greater than the PP, and non-linearity resumes.

Another way to visualize it is graphically. Your X axis is RC and your Y axis is TC. For each card dealt, there is a line with a unique slope. To keep the graph uncluttered, just think about 5 or 6 lines, one for each deck dealt. The slopes are different, but they all intersect at the pivot point, where TC = +4 and RC is 24 greater than your IRC.

 

[aslan]

I use a different IRC than you, however, the pivot point is at TC +4 and doesn't change as cards are dealt. The spread sheet, as posted, uses TC +5 at bet ramp 2, which is greater than the PP, and non-linearity resumes.

Another way to visualize it is graphically. Your X axis is RC and your Y axis is TC. For each card dealt, there is a line with a unique slope. To keep the graph uncluttered, just think about 5 or 6 lines, one for each deck dealt. The slopes are different, but they all intersect at the pivot point, where TC = +4 and RC is 24 greater than your IRC.

Well, if it doesn't change, what is meant by bet ramp 2? I'm confused by the meaning of bet ramp 2. I thought at first that it meant the point at which one should bet maximum units, ie, pivot point. If that's not it, what is it?

 

[21forme]

Well, if it doesn't change, what is meant by bet ramp 2? I'm confused by the meaning of bet ramp 2. I thought at first that it meant the point at which one should bet maximum units, ie, pivot point. If that's not it, what is it?

Bet ramp 2 is the TC at which maximum bet is placed. The author of the spreadsheet chose TC +5, which is not the pivot point. The ONLY point where RC = TC for every card in the shoe is at +4 (with an IRC of -20) which is the pivot point.

You can max out your bet wherever you want. Some authors suggest continually chipping up on a win as long as the count is still rising.

 

[aslan]

Bet ramp 2 is the TC at which maximum bet is placed. The author of the spreadsheet chose TC +5, which is not the pivot point. The ONLY point where RC = TC for every card in the shoe is at +4 (with an IRC of -20) which is the pivot point.

You can max out your bet wherever you want. Some authors suggest continually chipping up on a win as long as the count is still rising.

So, instead of only betting max at the pp, if I happen to know the "bet ramp 2" points based on decks remaining, I would be better off using them? In other words, the bet ramp 2 is more accurate than pivot point in deciding when to bet max. Is that right?

 

[21forme]

So, instead of only betting max at the pp, if I happen to know the "bet ramp 2" points based on decks remaining, I would be better off using them? In other words, the bet ramp 2 is more accurate than pivot point in deciding when to bet max. Is that right?

My gut feeling is the bigger your spread, the higher your SCORE, however, your ROR will increase, too. To get the actual numbers, you'd have to do a sim (and I don't have sim software.)

For me, it's a lot easier to remember just the fluctuating key (running) count for 1-4 decks played, so I know when to wong in and/or begin ramping my bets, and use +4 as my pivot point, which remains the same at all times. However, if the count continues to rise, and I'm winning bets, I will continue chipping up a bit (usually spread to 2 hands at this point.)

If you've downloaded the spreadsheet, change bet ramp 2 to 4.00 and you'll see what I mean. The stepladder turns into a flat line of a single running count. It's also interesting to note, not surprisingly, how a running count change of 1 point makes a much bigger difference near the end of the shoe.

 

[SilentBob420BMFJ]

Bet ramp 2 is the TC at which maximum bet is placed. The author of the spreadsheet chose TC +5, which is not the pivot point. The ONLY point where RC = TC for every card in the shoe is at +4 (with an IRC of -20) which is the pivot point.

You can max out your bet wherever you want. Some authors suggest continually chipping up on a win as long as the count is still rising.

actually, bet ramp, according to the KO book, is [advantage x bet ramp], so for instance, if your bet ramp is 2, and you have a 1% advantage, you bet 2 units, if you have a 2% advantage, you bet 4 units, if you have a 3% advantage you bet 6 units, etc.. as you can see, a bet ramp of 2 is very small, and a bet ramp of 1 = no spread, since anything x1 is 1.. the problem with this is you dont always know your exact advantage depending on the system you use, but you can just estimate (.6% per tc in hi-lo) since its rounded anyways.. in the book they give an example of bet ramp of 3, which they explain would mean at the pivot point you would bet 6 units, since your advantage is about 1.85% at the pivot point, so 1.85*3 = 5.55 which you round to 6

 

[21forme]

Bob, as usual, you don't know what you're talking about

Don't you ever read before you spout forth your nonsense?

As I stated earlier in this thread:

The spread sheet, as posted, uses TC +5 at bet ramp 2, which is greater than the PP, and non-linearity resumes.

Bet ramp 2 refers to a cell in the spreadsheet, and is not a bet ramp of 2.