Interesting Story

[CasinoBlackjack]

I play Blackjack at Fallsview Casino in Niagara Falls, Canada. Normally, poker is the only game in the Casino which I play for obvious reasons, but sometimes while I wait for seats I will play Blackjack BS for a while.

I sit down with $200 on $25 bets and I immediately realize this dealer is weak. A few times she paid BJ and then swiped up everyone elses cards before finishing the hand, a few as in like 3 or 4. Shortly after, everyone at the table gets dealt some lousy hands, 13's 14's, etc. Every single one of us drew to 20 ( I remember everyone had exactly 20). She flips a 3 out from her 10, followed by an ace and then a 7. Now, before everyone can gasp she says... Too Many! Normally some onlooker or doofus at the table will say something, but it was around 3 or 4 in the morning and most of the remaining players were people who play often as I've seen most of them playing before. No one says anything and we get away with it.

Shortly after that I get a 7/4 against the dealers 6. I double down of course and get an 8 to make 19. She draws 20 and proceeds to pay my hand. This time, the pit boss just happened to be standing over the table and he corrected it.

Now this is the big one. It's almost poker time and at this point I'm up considerably thanks to a good string of cards. I put down a $100 as my last hand and get dealt a 3,3 against a dealers 4. My first 3 I get an 8, double down and pulled a 3 for 14. My next 3 is matched again by another 3, split. I get a 6 on it and double it down for a 19. My last 3 I get another 3, split again. I get a 7 and double down, getting a 7. My last 3 I get another 8, double down again and get another 7 for 18. Everyone at this point is watching as there was a lot of oohs and aaahs. Dealer draws a 6 card 20! This time I even let out a ****. She proceeds to pay every hand!!!

After this I decided to skip my poker and hit up the cage instead.
-------------------------------------------------------------------


Was nice to see me get away with it as no one at the table even flinched. I doubt that dealer is around too much longer, those were brutal mistakes.

On a side note, the amount of bad BJ players in this world is ridiculous. I watched a guy split 10's against things like 4 and 5 and after questioning him I heard "Why wouldn't you against a 4 or 5?" Hmmm, I don't know, maybe because 20 is almost guaranteed money...

The best are the degenerate addicts that sit there and come in and out, in and out. I don't care but others question them and I hear " I was not winning so I wanted to change things up a bit", idiot.

Story/Rant over.

 

[sagefr0g]

....

The best are the degenerate addicts that sit there and come in and out, in and out. I don't care but others question them and I hear " I was not winning so I wanted to change things up a bit", idiot.

Story/Rant over.

excellent story.
just wondering is it possible those comming in and out might are wonging, so maybe not idiots?

 

[Slick Vic]

Now this is the big one. It's almost poker time and at this point I'm up considerably thanks to a good string of cards. I put down a $100 as my last hand and get dealt a 3,3 against a dealers 4. My first 3 I get an 8, double down and pulled a 3 for 14. My next 3 is matched again by another 3, split. I get a 6 on it and double it down for a 19. My last 3 I get another 3, split again. I get a 7 and double down, getting a 7. My last 3 I get another 8, double down again and get another 7 for 18. Everyone at this point is watching as there was a lot of oohs and aaahs. Dealer draws a 6 card 20! This time I even let out a ****. She proceeds to pay every hand!!!

After this I decided to skip my poker and hit up the cage instead.

Oh man. She actually paid out $800 for 4 losing hands? I can't imagine she would keep her job for very much longer after that, unless the surveillance people and bookkeepers are just as incompetent. It's a wonder why that pit boss didn't keep a closer eye on her after catching her mispay earlier.

If I were you, I wouldn't hit that casino for a while. Correct me if I'm wrong, but couldn't the casino inform you of the mistakes made by the dealer on your next visit and request the money back from you? Or at the very least they could probably bar you for this. It wouldn't surprise me, considering how poorly casinos treat blackjack players who walk away with money.

 

[Martin Gayle]

After this I decided to skip my poker and hit up the cage instead.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Was nice to see me get away with it as no one at the table even flinched. I doubt that dealer is around too much longer, those were brutal mistakes.

On a side note, the amount of bad BJ players in this world is ridiculous. I watched a guy split 10's against things like 4 and 5 and after questioning him I heard "Why wouldn't you against a 4 or 5?" Hmmm, I don't know, maybe because 20 is almost guaranteed money...

The best are the degenerate addicts that sit there and come in and out, in and out. I don't care but others question them and I hear " I was not winning so I wanted to change things up a bit", idiot.

Story/Rant over.

I advise, never, ever using your PAC card at Fallsview or Niagara again unless you want to give back your $800 and risk a barring. There is legal precedence in Ontario charging and convicting players of theft/fraud/game cheat who were mispayed, so beware.

The second part of your story reminds me of playing BJ and a teammate was dealt X,X vs a dealers X. The strategy called for splitting X's so he does, he turns his 20 into a 14 and 12. The other players were groaning, the dealer esp. was saying how dumb he was for splitting X's. The dealer goes on to draw to 17, and carries on saying how dumb my teammate was for splitting his 10's... while he pays his two losing hands. I look initially confused at my teammates hand being paid, and we exchange heterosexual winks.

 

[Martin Gayle]

The best are the degenerate addicts that sit there and come in and out, in and out. I don't care but others question them and I hear " I was not winning so I wanted to change things up a bit", idiot.

Story/Rant over.

If they are not playing with an advantage, they are actually brilliant for sitting out.

 

[rollem411]

The second part of your story reminds me of playing BJ and a teammate was dealt X,X vs a dealers X. The strategy called for splitting X's so he does, he turns his 20 into a 14 and 12.

You split a X,X vs X??? What strategy calls for this?

 

[sagefr0g]

You split a X,X vs X??? What strategy calls for this?

i think it's tc >=4 if dealer peeks and multiple deck, I18.

quote Martin Gayle
I advise, never, ever using your PAC card at Fallsview or Niagara again unless you want to give back your $800 and risk a barring. There is legal precedence in Ontario charging and convicting players of theft/fraud/game cheat who were mispayed, so beware.

hmph, that doesn't seem fair. what can the players do in the case they go home and then remmember the dealer didn't pay them for a winning hand.
come back and make them run the tape if there still is one? then is the casino chargeable as theft/fraud/game cheat?

 

[1357111317]

i think it's tc >=4 if dealer peeks and multiple deck, I18.


hmph, that doesn't seem fair. what can the players do in the case they go home and then remmember the dealer didn't pay them for a winning hand.
come back and make them run the tape if there still is one? then is the casino chargeable as theft/fraud/game cheat?

Sagefr0g the tc > = 4 is for a 6 not a 10. I am guessing the count for splitting X,X vs X would be somewhere around a TC of 30? maybe 40?

 

[GeorgeD]

Ahem ... so .... does this dealer have a name? How about the shift?

I play Blackjack at Fallsview Casino in Niagara Falls, Canada. Normally, poker is the only game in the Casino which I play for obvious reasons, but sometimes while I wait for seats I will play Blackjack BS for a while.

I sit down with $200 on $25 bets and I immediately realize this dealer is weak. A few times she paid BJ and then swiped up everyone elses cards before finishing the hand, a few as in like 3 or 4. Shortly after, everyone at the table gets dealt some lousy hands, 13's 14's, etc. Every single one of us drew to 20 ( I remember everyone had exactly 20). She flips a 3 out from her 10, followed by an ace and then a 7. Now, before everyone can gasp she says... Too Many! Normally some onlooker or doofus at the table will say something, but it was around 3 or 4 in the morning and most of the remaining players were people who play often as I've seen most of them playing before. No one says anything and we get away with it.

Shortly after that I get a 7/4 against the dealers 6. I double down of course and get an 8 to make 19. She draws 20 and proceeds to pay my hand. This time, the pit boss just happened to be standing over the table and he corrected it.

Now this is the big one. It's almost poker time and at this point I'm up considerably thanks to a good string of cards. I put down a $100 as my last hand and get dealt a 3,3 against a dealers 4. My first 3 I get an 8, double down and pulled a 3 for 14. My next 3 is matched again by another 3, split. I get a 6 on it and double it down for a 19. My last 3 I get another 3, split again. I get a 7 and double down, getting a 7. My last 3 I get another 8, double down again and get another 7 for 18. Everyone at this point is watching as there was a lot of oohs and aaahs. Dealer draws a 6 card 20! This time I even let out a ****. She proceeds to pay every hand!!!

After this I decided to skip my poker and hit up the cage instead.
-------------------------------------------------------------------


Was nice to see me get away with it as no one at the table even flinched. I doubt that dealer is around too much longer, those were brutal mistakes.

On a side note, the amount of bad BJ players in this world is ridiculous. I watched a guy split 10's against things like 4 and 5 and after questioning him I heard "Why wouldn't you against a 4 or 5?" Hmmm, I don't know, maybe because 20 is almost guaranteed money...

The best are the degenerate addicts that sit there and come in and out, in and out. I don't care but others question them and I hear " I was not winning so I wanted to change things up a bit", idiot.

Story/Rant over.

 

[sagefr0g]

Sagefr0g the tc > = 4 is for a 6 not a 10. I am guessing the count for splitting X,X vs X would be somewhere around a TC of 30? maybe 40?

right, that was the doubling hard10vsX I18 index. my bad. :whip:
just looked it up in Professional Blackjack there is no index number given for XXvsX.

 

[EasyRhino]

For the original story, I'm just amused that the rest of the table kept their cool.

For the XX vs. X, the obvious assumption would be that the player knew that the dealer had a stiff hand (which she did, before drawing to 17), and so should be discussed delicately if at all.

 

[shadroch]

I guess I'm too cynical, but when people come on here and in their first post tell a story that smells like bullshit, I'm inclined not to believe it. But thats just me.

 

[Martin Gayle]

You split a X,X vs X??? What strategy calls for this?

It's a magical stratgy that doesn't involve counting. I wish I hadn't mentioned it now. Thanks Rhino.

 

[Martin Gayle]

hmph, that doesn't seem fair. what can the players do in the case they go home and then remmember the dealer didn't pay them for a winning hand.
come back and make them run the tape if there still is one? then is the casino chargeable as theft/fraud/game cheat?

Casino gambling isn't fair. Intent has to be involved. If a player can prove that the casino intentionally took their bet, that should have won, they may have a case. The casino can prove intent when they see someone take mispays off the table as fast as they can and then run for the door.

The example of precendence comes from "Blackjack and the Law" the poor man recieved a mispay, went on to lose the money he was mispayed at the same casino. When the casino discovered the mispay they went and tracked him down at a slot bank, demanded the $2000 back, banned and charged him. The man pled guilty, gave back the $2000 paid a small fine. Givning back the mispay is reasonable but the criminal conviction is over the top. If he had got a lawyer he would probably have gotten off.

Mispays should not be something that you live and die on. They are nice when they happen but don't count on them. If you don't live in a place where casinos are everywhere, it probably isn't worth it to be tresspassed over a mispay (depends how much).

 

[CasinoBlackjack]

As far as being worried about getting a visit from someone next time I go, I very well know that it is possible, but I won't be stepping on eggshells next time I visit.

I have been stopped before on my way out and told a mistake had been made regarding a game. Much less money of course, but they were very polite about it and didn't make you out to be the bad guy. That is on top of numerous phone calls from upstairs to the pit boss in which he will correct a hand right there on the spot. All that said, I can't count the number of times a dealer has made a mistake and I haven't had anything come of it.

Shadroch...what would I possibly gain from making this up? The sheer stupidity someone would need to make a thing like this up is beyond even my own.

 

[shadroch]

Casino gambling isn't fair. Intent has to be involved. If a player can prove that the casino intentionally took their bet, that should have won, they may have a case. The casino can prove intent when they see someone take mispays off the table as fast as they can and then run for the door.

The example of precendence comes from "Blackjack and the Law" the poor man recieved a mispay, went on to lose the money he was mispayed at the same casino. When the casino discovered the mispay they went and tracked him down at a slot bank, demanded the $2000 back, banned and charged him. The man pled guilty, gave back the $2000 paid a small fine. Givning back the mispay is reasonable but the criminal conviction is over the top. If he had got a lawyer he would probably have gotten off.

Mispays should not be something that you live and die on. They are nice when they happen but don't count on them. If you don't live in a place where casinos are everywhere, it probably isn't worth it to be tresspassed over a mispay (depends how much).

Laws vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. A few years back, Pete Rose was paid improperly at a casino in Vegas. The book caught the mistake and asked for its money back. He refused. The employees who made the mistake made a personal plea, informing him they would be fired, and he would be banned from all the casinos affiliated casinos. He didn't care. Last i heard, he kept the $2500 and is still banned from MGM properties.

 

[TakingTheHouse]

I played at Fallsview last night and the deck was smoking! I won about 9 hands in a row with all 20's and 19's...once I split aces and got 2 blackjacks.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Laws vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. A few years back, Pete Rose was paid improperly at a casino in Vegas. The book caught the mistake and asked for its money back. He refused. The employees who made the mistake made a personal plea, informing him they would be fired, and he would be banned from all the casinos affiliated casinos. He didn't care. Last i heard, he kept the $2500 and is still banned from MGM properties.

That sounds like an unfair practice to me. Suppose I get paid improperly like that at a BJ table, and two hours later the suits come up to me an tell me to give it back. Being I don't have access to the tapes, I basically have to take their word for it. That makes it too easy for casinos to shake down winning players, and there are a lot of people who would just hand the money over out of intimidation. :eyepatch:

Is there any kind of a time limit for casinos to request a mispay back?

 

[ihate17]

Common sense vs dollar amount

That sounds like an unfair practice to me. Suppose I get paid improperly like that at a BJ table, and two hours later the suits come up to me an tell me to give it back. Being I don't have access to the tapes, I basically have to take their word for it. That makes it too easy for casinos to shake down winning players, and there are a lot of people who would just hand the money over out of intimidation. :eyepatch:

Is there any kind of a time limit for casinos to request a mispay back?

Not being an attorney but I do not think there is really a time limit and if there was it might be months or years and not hours.
I have/had family members in table game management and many times dealer errors are caught upstairs but because of the time delay involved the pit might just be notified and do nothing about it. This happens especially when the tape is being reviewed for whatever reason.
When caught immediately it is easy for the pit to walk up to the player and explain that he was paid on a loss or push on the previous hand and he can even have the dealer (dealer had better have put the cards in the discard pile correctly) re-create the hand as proof.
The problem comes when it is several hands later or a new shoe. The pit knows that there is a strong chance that the player will say he does not remember, true or not, and now it is just his word against the eye's word.
So, when it is an unimportant amount of money they just forget it, especially if they are smart.

In the case of Pete Rose and the amount of money he was capable of losing in a casino. $2,500, if caught late should have been forgotten (the dealer will get punished though) but if was caught immediately, Rose should have returned it with the lame, "I did not notice it" excuse we all use.

ihate17

 

[SystemsTrader]

Shadroch...what would I possibly gain from making this up? The sheer stupidity someone would need to make a thing like this up is beyond even my own.

I don't know if this story is true or not but I do know since I've played in that casino that a payment that size, larger than the table max. of $500 requires the dealer to inform the floor supervisor of the payout. So if you did get paid consider yourself very lucky!