Interpretation of laws on devices

[Automatic Monkey]

We all know it's illegal to use a device at the table for counting or shuffle tracking. But what I'd like to know is how far removed we need to be from the game in order to legally use it.

For me to use a shuffle tracking computer while at the table is an illegal use of a device. For me to take shuffle info and use it with my computer at home to analyze the shuffle is a legal use of a device. OK there are our endpoints. Now suppose I take some card count data into the bathroom and enter it into a Palm computer, get back to the table before it's my turn to cut and use the result from the Palm to determine where to put the cut card. Is that illegal? My guess is 'no', because there is no law against using a computer in the bathroom. Even more importantly there is no way to prove exactly what I was doing in the stall. Now what if I go over to the slots between shoes and use my computer? That's a bit trickier.

 

[zengrifter]

Device Law in Nevada...

... is constitutionally flawed and has yet to be sufficiently tested. The way its written, if a neophyte player uses me at the table to indicate bet-size and plays, I could be the device! zg

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Casinos sell such devices

Casino shops have in the past ( I don't know if they still do) sell Basic Strategy cards. That's a device.

If I were to do something like this, first I would have to be convinced it was at least theoretically legal. Then I would make an analog nomograph instead of actually using a Palm or something. Partially because I like nomographs and they are quick to use, but also because if caught I'd love to see the rejects in the security department puzzling and trying to figure out just what the heck this thing is and does.

Also a business opportunity, I could analyze shuffles and set them to little cardboard nomographs that I could sell, a different one for each casino.

 

[learning to count]

The law is particular to mechanical devices

and or devices that can give the player information that is not available until the time of decision of who is the winner. In other words only after the wager has been made and the game played then thatinfo will/can be shown. A players card only gives you information of how to play what is in front of you at the table. What do they teach dealers anyway???? It seems that the lack of the correct information is what is hurting the casino industry. They train the front line not to think only react. Sad state of affairs for an industry that has set records this year in profits. The other side of this is that the common gambler is truely a fool and believes/trained that losing money is entertainment. The industry has not only trained monkeys but has also trained the hand that feeds it.

 

[gehrig]

you're half right...

devise a card with basic strategy for maybe a 6 deck game, a chart with the casino holds on roulette, video poker percentages versus pay glass numbers, even a dice wager vig chart. meld them with some of the outcall escort/massage service flyers. sounds like a win-win. if you distribute them just north of the venetian, on the east side of the strip, that'd be wynn-wynn. even a husband when accompanied by his bride would take one...for the "strategy value". and one of those folded in half lengthwise, with some lass' keyster showing, stuffed in the "advantage" player's shirt pocket be da kine mo betta camouflage than the usual suspect parlay card or deceased keno ticket. aina' ?

 

[CanKen]

Nomograph?

What is an "analog nomograph". I can't find "nomograph" in my dictionaries, and I hate not knowing what a word means.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Nomograph

It's a two-dimensional representation of a mathematical equation and it's solution. Basically, a chart. A slide rule is a form of nomograph and because it can have several slides and scales it is a very powerful one. Line up the parameters and get your answer.

If I were to make a shuffle tracking nomograph, I would analyze a shuffle, let's say for a 6 deck shoe. I'd then have 6 pieces of cardboard or paper on which I would align the true counts at the end of each deck, and there would be an indicator on each piece that would then point to the estimated true count for each deck after the shuffle. Let's say I printed it all on $20 bills. To the eye I would just look like a guy playing with his money at the table. If someone were to inspect the bills and see they're marked, they'd see some cryptic markings and unless they knew exactly how to use the nomograph they'd have no clue how it works and couldn't prove a thing. About 15 years ago in a physics class I had a slide rule and I was the only student in there who knew what to do with it, and these guys are all of top notch intelligence. I don't think I would have much to worry about from casino security guys!

On the other hand, with enough practice I could probably memorize the matrix operations used to solve for the true counts of the shuffled shoe, and that practice might take less time than constructing the nomograph. Just a fun idea.

 

[Dog Hand]

Also called "nomogram"... maybe that's in your dictionary.