Is this correct?

[rounder21]

The game I play is 6D, H17, DAS, RSA, 1 1/2 decks cut off for pen. From what I understand, this game is -.66 off the top. I use zen with tc per 1d estimation. With each increase of 1 in my TC, my advantage goes up approximately .3% Which means I am only almost even at +2. At +3 I'm only at a .2 to .3% advantage. Thats rediculous, I hardly get to play when I wong. But the only way to always play when I have the advantage is to wong in at +3 and out at +2 right? If I wonged out at 0 instead, I would play more hands, but my advantage would be reduced because anything under +2 the house has the edge. Could I make a descent profit wonging in at +3 and out at +2 starting at a base unit and increasing my bet 1 unit every time the rc goes up and dropping it 1 unit everytime the rc goes down? About 1 base unit bet per hour would be nice. My only other option in that casino is 2D with no midshoe entry and 50% penetration. I suspect wonging the 6D would be better though its a lot of waiting.

Thanks,
Rounder

 

[jimpenn]

Considering 66% pen and hitting soft 17 you better have a big suitcase of money. If your playing in LV, you will last about an hour prior to getting a "tap."

 

[rounder21]

St. Louis...

The games around here are horrible. I was in vegas around 4 years ago and I heard all the rumors about how bad the heat was there, but I never experienced any at 2D and only some shuffle ups at single deck. And I was betting bigger than I do now. I WISH I lived in Vegas. I have heard things have changed with the 6:5 single deck, but I imagine they still have good shoe games and
2D.

I would think I would need no more than 100 units using the spread I suggested to obtain a reasonable chance of doubling it before going broke even with such horrible rules. Am I wrong???

Thanks again,
Rounder

 

[EasyRhino]

That's actually about the game that I've been cutting my teeth on (about 2/3 of the play has been at places with surrender, and penetration is sometimes 1 deck). I've been using KO and my bet spreads are eitehr $5-50 or $10-50 depending on the situation. I wong when possible.

Over about 12 weekends, my bankroll has grown from $500 to $2000. Which, while tiny, is still technically a quadrupling.

It's a very unscientific sample, and your mileage may vary titanically, but it's not hopeless.

 

[golfnut101]

tough game that can be beat

Hey Rhino

Similiar rules for me as well, only add to that no hole card. So, I believe wonging is key, and if you are a KO player, discipline with exit strategies
a must. Nicely done on increasing the br. Wonder what the 'sim' masters would say about that; 'cant be done', 'too high ROR', blah blah blah. Yeah, us lil chippers know that, but, if you love to play the game, you play the game.

 

[EasyRhino]

Wait, no hole card? Sorry bud, you're hoozled.

I reckon I had average to good luck so far with the bankroll, although I did have a few "winning" sessions which only came at the expense of hours and hours and hours at the table, yielding about a dollar an hour wage equivalent.

While I claim it's all for practice, I really just do it for the free buffets.

 

[Sonny]

I use zen with tc per 1d estimation. With each increase of 1 in my TC, my advantage goes up approximately .3% Which means I am only almost even at +2. At +3 I'm only at a .2 to .3% advantage.

That sounds odd to me. You're using the balanced version of Zen with TC conversion, right? The advantage per TC should be much higher than 0.3%. You should have a small advantage at +1 and a good advantage (maybe around 1% or more) at +2. Unless you're using a tiny spread (like flat betting) you should be jumping in much more often.

You should check out the CVCX Online page and look at a few sims:

http://www.card-counting.com/cvcxonlineviewer.htm

I believe the password "100" still works for viewing the EVs at each TC.

-Sonny-

 

[rounder21]

Thats what I was wondering...

That sounds odd to me. You're using the balanced version of Zen with TC conversion, right? The advantage per TC should be much higher than 0.3%. You should have a small advantage at +1 and a good advantage (maybe around 1% or more) at +2. Unless you're using a tiny spread (like flat betting) you should be jumping in much more often.

You should check out the CVCX Online page and look at a few sims:

http://www.card-counting.com/cvcxonlineviewer.htm

I believe the password "100" still works for viewing the EVs at each TC.

-Sonny-

Yes, I use balanced zen and when I say 1D estimations, I mean I divide the running count by how ever many decks are remaining to get the true count. I was under the impression that level 1 systems get +.5% for every 1TC and level 2 systems get +.3% for every 1TC. It would be great if I could get in earlier, that would mean more playing for me. I will check the website youre referring to. In the meantime if anyone else could verify what Sonny is saying that would be great. I would love to find out that I'm underestimating my advantage.

Thanks,
Rounder

 

[rounder21]

The website helps...

Still not sure about a few things. When I plugged in the data with Zen 1998 indices, it said I have an advantage of 1% at +1, but with the zen 1980 indices, it said I dont get an advantage until +3 and its about .33%. I think the 1980 indices must divide per how many decks left (which is what I do), while the 1998 indices divides by how many half or quarter decks left. When I look at the frequencies, that appears to be the case. Unfortunately I'm afraid I was right. But it looks like I play closer to 20% (I thought it was around 10%) of the hands even when wonging in at +3 and out at +2. If I increase my ROR to about 40% (its okay my bankroll is always replenishable) then I can get an advantage of about $10 per hour. It appears this is the best way to go. I have to go now, I will check more later, but thanks for the help and the website Sonny. Any other suggestions would be appreciated.

Rounder21

 

[rounder21]

Some questions...

I'm using the CVCX viewer and it is helpful but a few things I'm still not sure about. In the optimal bets columns, it says "exact" and "chips". I'm guessing exact is the dollar amount you should bet if possible. But the chips column is confusing. When it says 2 chips it doesnt say what denomination. Also, why would you bet 2 chips when you dont have the advantage? You should bet 1 or not at all. Also, shouldnt your $$$ per hour always go up as you increase your spread? There is a point where the spread gets bigger and the $$$ per hour goes down when all else remains equal. How is that possible? For example a spread of 12 shows slightly better profit than a spread of 20. Sorry so many questions, but there's a lot here I dont understand.

Thanks,
Rounder