Keeping the count in my head

[GeorgeD]

I'm dabbling with counting trying to decide if I can use an easy marginal system just as a recreational player. I have BS down very well, and can do OK keeping track of cards, but I'm having trouble keeping the count in my head during a real game or using CV. Am just practicing since I'm not nearly capable for real play using a count.

I can have the count OK, but sometimes when I play my hand by the time I get through adding my cards and the dealer's, the count is lost. Frankly I don't keep numbers in my head well, so have to keep repeating the count to try and hang onto it .... then sometimes when I play my hand after those numbers register (especially a complicated one) I'm sitting thinking "was that 3 or 2 or 1 or -3 count".

Any ideas or is my mind too hopelessly boggled to ever get even a simple count to stick besides writing it on my hand?

 

[QFIT]

First, how long have you been practicing?

Secondly, are you using the drills? I know the game is more fun then the drills. But, you need to start with counting drills. Then flash card drills. Only when you can process these at high speed will it become easy to do both at once without losing count.

 

[21forme]

Just keep repeating the count in your head. You can also keep track on your fingers or play with your chips and make the count in piles.

Over time it gets easier.

 

[GeorgeD]

First, how long have you been practicing?

Secondly, are you using the drills? I know the game is more fun then the drills. But, you need to start with counting drills. Then flash card drills. Only when you can process these at high speed will it become easy to do both at once without losing count.

I'm trying to start easy to see if I have the "right stuff" so have been practicing the Ace/Five count with a deck for over a week. If that works, then I'll try KISS or something a little more complex.

I test CV with the game because I can't see how the counting drills can be set to count just Ace/Five. Am I missing something?

BTW: The CV drills for BS are excellent. Nice that you can set just soft doubles or whatever. Be great to do the same with the game ... "difficult hands" alone wasn't too useful for me.

 

[QFIT]

A week is nothing; particularly with just a real deck of cards unless you are an accomplished card handler. You need to create a user strategy for Ace/Five.

 

[EasyRhino]

George, first of all, it's great that you're doing this in practice, and not in a casino. Much cheaper.

I also recommend getting comfortable with drills first. Either on software or just counting down a deck at your kitchen table. Very boring, but it's an important building block. I did most of my practice at airports during flight delays.

Besides practicing counting, there are a few different things I can think of that help you "store" the count:

1) Being totally unconscious with basic strategy saves brainpower for the count. Practice makes perfect here. And after you see a few gillion hands, not only are your play decisions automatic, but you begin to "know" the hand totals without actually doing the math.

2) Try visualizing the number rather than verbalizing it, and see how it works. Sometimes I imagine a little number in the corner of my vision, like a video game score.

3) If you know a distraction, or a lull, is coming, make a conscious effort to memorize the count, even if it may be only for a few seconds. For an allegory, let's say you're working on a match problem in your head, and you've halfway through (carrying the ones, etc). If you suddenly switch to something else, you'll totally forget everything. However, if you stop and say "my intermediate total is 123", then you have a good chance of keeping it when you come back. Dealing with distractions is of course more of a casino environment thing.

edit: oh, and I HIGHLY recommend upgrading to a slightly fancier count. KO, KISS, or Red Seven would work fine, and still be fairly easy I bet.

 

[GeorgeD]

A week is nothing; particularly with just a real deck of cards unless you are an accomplished card handler. You need to create a user strategy for Ace/Five.

That's a week just with counting. I had BS down pretty OK, but spent a month finding my weaknesses and getting it ALL right. Pretty automatic now except for things like soft doubles. Still not totaling automatic which is part of the problem.

User strategy in CV worked great, thanks. I can use the drills now! I'll keep up the practice and see how it goes.

 

[GeorgeD]

Thanks Rhino .... visualizing might help, and as I said not all of BS is on auto-pilot yet. That's what gets me worst ... when I have to think too much about something like if I should soft double. Rule of nine's is great, but there I am adding other numbers and then thinking "was that a 4 and 5 I just added or is the count 4 ... or 5".

My casino practice has been limited to flat betting with just BS, but trying to track the count. That's how I found out how really hard the real world is.

Hoping if I get up to speed on A/5, maybe I'll work on Red-7 or KISS, but the higher variance with a bigger spread worries me. Really just recreational, so happy to minimize my losses and get some comps.

 

[ChefJJ]

Just keep repeating the count in your head. You can also keep track on your fingers or play with your chips and make the count in piles.

Over time it gets easier.

I keep track of the count with my chips...works pretty well for me and helps take a lot of the memorization from hand to hand out of it.

good luck

 

[EasyRhino]

George, if you make the transition from A/5 to something else, I'd be curious to your opinion on how much harder the "hard" counts are.

As I havent' messed with A/5, I don't really know how much easier it is, although my hunch is not much.

 

[GeorgeD]

George, if you make the transition from A/5 to something else, I'd be curious to your opinion on how much harder the "hard" counts are.

As I haven't messed with A/5, I don't really know how much easier it is, although my hunch is not much.

Not even ready for A/5 much less a transition, but will let you know if I ever get there!

Let me ask this: I think wizardofodds says A/5 count on a 6 deck with a betting spread of 1-2 make about an even game. Would something like KISS, Red Seven or KO with that small spread do much better, or would I have to use 1-8 or even 1-12 spread ..... especially in an 8 deck shoe?

 

[EasyRhino]

Doesn't sound right, KO books says that a 1-5 spread is a losing proposition at a 8D table, and maybe 6D as well.

A/5 would be expected to do worse.

 

[GeorgeD]

Doesn't sound right, KO books says that a 1-5 spread is a losing proposition at a 8D table, and maybe 6D as well.

A/5 would be expected to do worse.

I read the Wiz's explanation closer, and you're correct.

He explains A/5 with a 1-2 spread as near even, but then shows a table of sims he ran at a 1-38 (yikes!!) spread that got a .01 edge. His sim with a 1-10 gets -.11 (dis)advantage.

He also says: "So this not a strategy for those with a weak stomach. If you want something with a smaller bet spread you will have to play a more traditional card counting strategy, which requires tracking more cards and usually a true count conversion (dividing the running count by the number of remaining decks), and strategy adjustments based on the count"

http://wizardofodds.com/blackjack/wizardcount.html

I knew Uston first used an A/5 with some success, but moved to better counts. Guess that's why.

Maybe Renzey's Ace Front count is more what I'm looking for or I shoud just bite the bullet and learn Red-7 or KISS.

 

[bj bob]

And after further review...

...The Wiz says actually that the spread is 1 unit min. and 2x pos. RC. This is how the spread gets so high. Damn those fine details at the end of sentences!

 

[GeorgeD]

...The Wiz says actually that the spread is 1 unit min. and 2x pos. RC. This is how the spread gets so high. Damn those fine details at the end of sentences!

Ahhhhh... I should read & remember more carefully. He does say: "If the running count is zero or less then bet one unit, otherwise be 2×(unit size)×(running count)". Thought I recalled 2X(unit) on all pos counts ...... that did seem too easy!

Then the max bet of 38 units is on a count of 19 ... that can't happen often. Roughly when 1 deck of a 6 deck shoe is left with five 5's and 24 Aces. Even with ~52 cards left with 24 Aces (if 100% pen) not sure I'd push $380 out there when my unit was $10. Even with 80%+ pen a lot of those aces could be past the cut .... or you could catch 2 A's and lousy splits

Can anyone est the edge in such a situation?

The wiz does say average bet at 1-38 was 2.85 units, so maybe a 1-10 spread and a disadvantage of -.11 would keep the edge and variance down enough for the rec player to make out on comps??? I think that's who he was aiming this at. What's anyone think? This or Renzey's Ace front count??

 

[SilentBob420BMFJ]

I'm dabbling with counting trying to decide if I can use an easy marginal system just as a recreational player. I have BS down very well, and can do OK keeping track of cards, but I'm having trouble keeping the count in my head during a real game or using CV. Am just practicing since I'm not nearly capable for real play using a count.

I can have the count OK, but sometimes when I play my hand by the time I get through adding my cards and the dealer's, the count is lost. Frankly I don't keep numbers in my head well, so have to keep repeating the count to try and hang onto it .... then sometimes when I play my hand after those numbers register (especially a complicated one) I'm sitting thinking "was that 3 or 2 or 1 or -3 count".

Any ideas or is my mind too hopelessly boggled to ever get even a simple count to stick besides writing it on my hand?

use your chips, it helps A LOT.. and dont listen to these people about "they will know your a card counter" because if your better under $100 and its 6-8 decks, 90% of casinos wont care, and it would take months before that 10% of casinos would notice.. i honestly think that people get off on being covert, and that unless your doing like a $10-$200 spread it dont matter..

 

[ChefJJ]

use your chips, it helps A LOT

I second that.

 

[SilentBob420BMFJ]

I'm trying to start easy to see if I have the "right stuff" so have been practicing the Ace/Five count with a deck for over a week. If that works, then I'll try KISS or something a little more complex.

I test CV with the game because I can't see how the counting drills can be set to count just Ace/Five. Am I missing something?

BTW: The CV drills for BS are excellent. Nice that you can set just soft doubles or whatever. Be great to do the same with the game ... "difficult hands" alone wasn't too useful for me.

what is cv?

 

[SilentBob420BMFJ]

Not even ready for A/5 much less a transition, but will let you know if I ever get there!

Let me ask this: I think wizardofodds says A/5 count on a 6 deck with a betting spread of 1-2 make about an even game

i highly doubt that.. when you say a/5 your talking about the -1 for A and +1 for 5 count right? just those 2 cards? with a 1-2 spread? if thats true, then how come they say you need a 1-20 spread for an 8 deck with hi-lo to be making like $1/hr

ok this has already been answered above.. see i go thru posts and respond right as i see them, because im not gonna read 7 pages and then think hmm which ones should i respond to, cuz i wont remember