KO guys - at what count do you wong in?

[21forme]

All the following comments apply to 6 deck shoes with an IRC = -20...

The KO book says wong in at -4. However, Renzey made some excellent point in his post in this thread: http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showpost.php?p=29041&postcount=3

I followed up with a few more calculations and came up with the following:
Let's presume you want to wong in at TC = 1.5
at 1 deck this equals a RC of -8
at 2 decks RC = -6
at 3 decks RC = -3
at 4 decks RC = -1

As Renzey stated in another post, which goes along with this info, KO underestimates your advantage early and overestimates it late. I plan on making use of this info in my play. Any comments?

 

[ChefJJ]

All the following comments apply to 6 deck shoes with an IRC = -20...

The KO book says wong in at -4. However, Renzey made some excellent point in his post in this thread: http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showpost.php?p=29041&postcount=3

I followed up with a few more calculations and came up with the following:
Let's presume you want to wong in at TC = 1.5
at 1 deck this equals a RC of -8
at 2 decks RC = -6
at 3 decks RC = -3
at 4 decks RC = -1

As Renzey stated in another post, which goes along with this info, KO underestimates your advantage early and overestimates it late. I plan on making use of this info in my play. Any comments?

Interesting...for those calculations you listed, are you referring to the earliest point that you encounter that RC?

 

[21forme]

No. Each of those RCs correspond to a TC of +1.5 after that many decks have been played.

 

[Jeff25]

All the following comments apply to 6 deck shoes with an IRC = -20...

The KO book says wong in at -4. However, Renzey made some excellent point in his post in this thread: http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showpost.php?p=29041&postcount=3

I followed up with a few more calculations and came up with the following:
Let's presume you want to wong in at TC = 1.5
at 1 deck this equals a RC of -8
at 2 decks RC = -6
at 3 decks RC = -3
at 4 decks RC = -1

As Renzey stated in another post, which goes along with this info, KO underestimates your advantage early and overestimates it late. I plan on making use of this info in my play. Any comments?

Using different key counts or wong in points for each deck is a very good idea. You will have to be careful when you wong in after 1 or 2 decks because alot of the time the count will drop and you will be stuck playing negative hands. Most of the time I like to wait for a TC of 2 or even a little higher to wong in. Dont forget to calculate your wong out points for the second half of the shoe.

 

[ChefJJ]

Not trying to be a pain in the ass, but isn't it a bit counterintuitive to convert the KO RC via how many decks have been played? I mean, if you are going to convert to TC to deviate from the KO system, why not use a balanced counting system that you need to convert the RC to TC?

Just thinking out loud.

good luck

 

[21forme]

No, not really. I'm not saying do a real-time TC conversion as you play. What I'm saying is here are a few more indexes that would be helpful to know, since you are missing advantage opportunity early in the shoe by using the KO RC, as written.

 

[ChefJJ]

No, not really. I'm not saying do a real-time TC conversion as you play. What I'm saying is here are a few more indexes that would be helpful to know, since you are missing advantage opportunity early in the shoe by using the KO RC, as written.

Gotcha. Now to step out of the realm of wonging...those indices (based on how many cards have been played/are left) mean you have reached the PP, correct? So, as a player who is at the table for the whole shoe, these are the points at which you can safely say the PP has been met at that point in the shoe?

Excellent.

good luck

 

[21forme]

With KO, the pivot point (+4) does correlate well with a TC of +4 independent of the number of cards played. That's how KO was designed. What this means is early in the shoe, you would ramp your bets more slowly as the difference between (real, deck-dependent) key count and pivot point is greater.

I'll be playing in AC this Friday, and will incorporate some of this into my play.