KO, HiLO, Hi Opt I

[Big Cowboy]

I'm just curious. I've noticed on the message boards that a lot of APs use the KO or HiLo systems. I know in the book "Bringing Down the House," the MIT guys used the HiLo system also. I use the Hi Opt I because that was the first system that I came in contact with, is easy to use (I rarely make mistakes even when I'm buzzed), that also taught me basic strategy. Is the Hi Opt I inferior to other systems? Just wondering how it compares to other systems, especially in ease of use and EV. What do you all think? Is it worth my while to learn another system?

 

[Rob V.]

"Is the Hi Opt I inferior to other systems? Just wondering how it compares to other systems, especially in ease of use and EV. What do you all think? Is it worth my while to learn another system? "

Hi Opt I used well is great, and you say you use it well. I don't like it, for the same reasons I don't like any count that tags Aces as zero. While KO and Hi-Lo are perfectly good counts without a side count of Aces, Hi Opt tends to be miserably crippled without it. For me, implementing a strategy-based ace adjustment is much easier and necessary less often. I also couldn't imagine having to sidecounting and using 24 aces accurately in a six decker. A swift kick in the groin sounds like more fun.

So, "Ease of use" - harder than both. "EV" - great, if you master its "harder than both" aspect.

If you're happy, keep it up. It's a powerful count. I would only really consider switching if

1) you're hitting mainly shoe games, or
2) KO and High-Low appeal to you based on your personal preferences/abilities with unbalanced-osity, ace-reckon-osity, etc.

Just my two cents,
Rob

 

[FLA Player]

I also started with Hi OPT 1 (after reading "WGBJB") and because there is the Ace side count the playing efficency isn't as strong as Hi-Lo. You will pick up Hi-Lo easily with a little practice, it is a very good count for shoe games. Someone who is more of a math guy could provide some stats for the % breakdown of the actual difference.

In my opinion, Hi-Lo is far superior and easier to use (no ace side count).

FLA Player

 

[Felix Rue-de-Guerre]

I started with Hi-opt1 and switched to Hi-Lo. I takes very little practice to add the 2's and aces to you count, I18 is about the same. I don't remember for sure, but I think the increase in Bet Efficiency was about +.1.

Good increase in gain for only a little work.

 

[Running Count]

Comparison *LINK*

See link below...

 

[Sonny]

If you're going to be playing shoe games, I would definately recommend the Hi-Lo. An ace side count can become a pain real quick when you're counting down six decks!

However, If you're playing mostly pitch games then I would stick with the better playing and insurance efficiencies of Hi-Opt I. Personally, I use the Hi-Opt II for all types of games and have never had any trouble.

Everyone has their own system that works for them in the games they play. Keep in mind that any of these systems will give you an edge. If you are only a recreational player it may not make much difference.

-Sonny-

 

[Big Cowboy]

Actually, I don't use an Ace side count because it is a pain. I know that decreases my playing efficiency, but I've been using this system now for over 10 years an am very comfortable using it. It's so ingrained inside my head, I can just pick up anytime and play BJ drunk, distracted, half-asleep or trying to get oxygen in a smoke-filled room. Also, it took me so long to learn one system, I'm not sure how long it would take me to learn a new one. I also play shoe games because I've never gotten any heat for it and am not comfortable playing pitch games. I appreciate the input and hope you all have some more.

 

[Sonny]

>Actually, I don't use an Ace side count because it is a pain. I know that
>decreases my playing efficiency, but I've been using this system now for over
>10 years an am very comfortable using it. I also play shoe games because I've
>never gotten any heat for it and am not comfortable playing pitch games.

In that case, I would recommend switching to HiLo. Not using the Ace side count drops the betting efficiency of Hi-Opt I from .96 (Humble's figure. Possibly exaggerated) to .88. Since proper betting is the most important part of the game, especially in shoe games, the HiLo would be your best bet out of the three systems.

>It's so ingrained inside my head, I can just pick up anytime and play BJ
>drunk, distracted, half-asleep or trying to get oxygen in a smoke-filled room.
>Also, it took me so long to learn one system, I'm not sure how long it would
>take me to learn a new one.

For me, switching from Hi-Opt I to Hi-Opt II took about 1-2 days. Learning the new card values is pretty easy once you practice for a while. If you are trying to learn all new indices as well, then it becomes much tougher. Of course, if you find yourself making too many mistakes than you can always switch back. Counting cards is useless unless you are keeping an accurate count. If you are comfortable and happy with the Hi-Opt I then you should stick with it, but if you want to move on to a better system then try HiLo. I don't think counting an extra 2 cards will throw you off that much, and it will increase your accuracy quite a bit.

Again, it all depends on how much you play and how serious you are about becoming a better player. Any of these systems can earn you money, but some will do it faster (and more often) than others.

-Sonny-

 

[Big Cowboy]

Just wondering where I can find a copy of the Hi-Lo strategy. Is it in a book like the Hi Opt I? Or is it as easy as finding it on the internet?

 

[Rob V.]

Look to your left on the green left nav bar. Click on "System Indices". Click on -1 1 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 -1 . That's High-Low. You'll get the 18 most important strategies.

The book you want is _Professional Blackjack_, by Stanford Wong. My first blackjack book - ah the memories. It's the primary reference for High-Low. I don't use his counts anymore, but I was STILL looking at it yesterday for reference. I highly recommend it.

- Rob V.