Legal to get a players ratings card with a fake ID?

[ArcticInferno]

As you know, you can easily get a fake ID from the internet.
These false IDs are quite impressive.
Anyway, my question isn’t regarding the false IDs themselves.
If I get a players ratings card with a fake ID, am I breaking the law?
The casino isn’t a legal organization. They have no legal authorities.
Consider this example: If you falsify your resume for a job interview,
you have not broken a law.
You may be fired, but there won’t be a legal charge against you.
If I get a players ratings card with a false ID, I may not get the comps,
but I don’t think that it’s a legal issue.
Have any of you actually gotten a players ratings card with a false ID?
As for the address, I can easily open an address at the UPS store.
Does anyone have references or citations regarding this matter?

 

[21forme]

Technically, the possession of a falsified government-issued ID is a crime. Using a player's card with a false name isn't.

Be careful with Internet IDs. I've never tried it myself, but I've been told by others most of the fake ID web sites are scams that will take your money and return nothing.

 

[ArcticInferno]

Technically, the possession of a falsified government-issued ID is a crime. Using a player's card with a false name isn't.

Be careful with Internet IDs. I've never tried it myself, but I've been told by others most of the fake ID web sites are scams that will take your money and return nothing.

21forme, a fake ID it's a government-issued ID card.
Is it legal to have something that resembles a government-issued ID?
Also, when you buy something on the internet with your credit card,
you can always get your money back.
The burden to prove that you received the product as expected is on them.
Anyway,... please this post is not about the fake IDs themselves.
I'm talking about getting a players ratings card with a fake ID.
Imagine someone who goes to Las Vegas only once a year.
How many times will he go in his life time? 10, maybe 15?
So, I'll have fewer than 20 players cards.
I would naturally keep a detailed record of the use of each card.
If I use the same players card year after year, then the cummulative
winnings will alert them.

 

[mathman]

21forme, a fake ID it's a government-issued ID card.
Is it legal to have something that resembles a government-issued ID?
Also, when you buy something on the internet with your credit card,
you can always get your money back.
The burden to prove that you received the product as expected is on them.
Anyway,... please this post is not about the fake IDs themselves.
I'm talking about getting a players ratings card with a fake ID.
Imagine someone who goes to Las Vegas only once a year.
How many times will he go in his life time? 10, maybe 15?
So, I'll have fewer than 20 players cards.
I would naturally keep a detailed record of the use of each card.
If I use the same players card year after year, then the cummulative
winnings will alert them.

Then what is the point of a fake ID ? Cummulative winnings will not alert them if you're only going once or twice per year. I doubt you would ever be noticed. People do win at this game you know.:laugh:...JtMM

 

[Sucker]

I'm quite sure that possession of a false government document IS breaking the law in most if not all states. That said, I know of more than a dozen people who've been picked off with fake I.D. by a casino. I know of NO ONE who's actually been ARRESTED for it, other than someone who made the mistake of trying to show it to a cop (which I'll discuss in the next paragraph). They just take it away from you and bar you. I have a friend who got caught by the TSA with a fake I.D. in his luggage and all they did was confiscate it. I was in the casino when my partner got caught using fake I.D. at the player's club in Harrah's Atlantic City, and the casino DID call the A.C. police to try and press charges. The response from the police: "We're not going to send an officer out there for something this trivial. Just confiscate the I.D. & '86 the patron".

So my guess as to the answer to your question would be; as long as you don't use the I.D. to actually defraud someone, and as long as you don't try giving it to a law enforcement officer, you'll probably be alright. Which is exactly what a certain well-known player tried to do in the Bellagio a couple of years ago. During the course of a back-rooming, she tried to show a fake I.D. to a Nevada Gaming agent (who happened to know EXACTLY who she was). It earned her a night in jail and a few bucks in attorney fees.:laugh:

Now, if you're under 21, and you get caught with an I.D. that says you ARE of age, this will lend a whole new level of seriousness to the offense, of course.

 

[21forme]

If you're only playing once or twice a year, play anon. Don't waste your money on fake IDs.

 

[ArcticInferno]

I'm quite sure that possession of a false government document IS breaking the law in most if not all states. That said, I know of more than a dozen people who've been picked off with fake I.D. by a casino. I know of NO ONE who's actually been ARRESTED for it, other than someone who made the mistake of trying to show it to a cop (which I'll discuss in the next paragraph). They just take it away from you and bar you. I have a friend who got caught by the TSA with a fake I.D. in his luggage and all they did was confiscate it. I was in the casino when my partner got caught using fake I.D. at the player's club in Harrah's Atlantic City, and the casino DID call the A.C. police to try and press charges. The response from the police: "We're not going to send an officer out there for something this trivial. Just confiscate the I.D. & '86 the patron".

So my guess as to the answer to your question would be; as long as you don't use the I.D. to actually defraud someone, and as long as you don't try giving it to a law enforcement officer, you'll probably be alright. Which is exactly what a certain well-known player tried to do in the Bellagio a couple of years ago. During the course of a back-rooming, she tried to show a fake I.D. to a Nevada Gaming agent (who happened to know EXACTLY who she was). It earned her a night in jail and a few bucks in attorney fees.:laugh:

Now, if you're under 21, and you get caught with an I.D. that says you ARE of age, this will lend a whole new level of seriousness to the offense, of course.

I think there’s a distinction between possession of a false ID vs use of a false ID to commit fraud.
Obviously, you would *never* carry the false ID on you when you play.
After you get the players ratings card, you put your fake ID away. End of story regarding possession of a fake ID.
I *never* carry an ID with me when I enter a casino, so I can honestly say that I don’t have my ID with me.
Playing blackjack in and of itself isn’t committing fraud, and neither is counting cards.
There was a case regarding Michael Chen vs Monte Carlo Las Vegas.
Michael Chen used a fake passport to get a players ratings card.
A foreign passport isn’t issued by the US Government, so I guess it would be “safer” than using a fake drivers license.

 

[ArcticInferno]

If you're only playing once or twice a year, play anon. Don't waste your money on fake IDs.

I play black chip. If you refuse to be rated at that level, they immediately stare at your face for 3 minutes while typing frantically into the computer. They’re obviously entering your physical description into the computer.
Why would someone betting that heavy refuse free rooms, restaurants, spas, etc.?

 

[Dyepaintball12]

My understanding is that it's not illegal to use a False ID in a casino AS LONG AS you are not using it to break the law (gamble underage).

I have personally used 2 different "novelty" IDs to get players cards and have shown them at the table all over Las Vegas and they never even got a second glance.

 

[ArcticInferno]

My understanding is that it's not illegal to use a False ID in a casino AS LONG AS you are not using it to break the law (gamble underage).

I have personally used 2 different "novelty" IDs to get players cards and have shown them at the table all over Las Vegas and they never even got a second glance.

Hey Dyepaintball12, your experience is very encouraging.
It’s a creepy feeling to have an MGM Grand floor supervisor stare dead into your face for 5 full minutes while nobody is talking. He was so engrossed in entering my physical description into the computer that he didn’t realize that everyone at the table, including the dealer, was getting freaked out.

 

[ArcticInferno]

I'm quite sure that possession of a false government document IS breaking the law in most if not all states. That said, I know of more than a dozen people who've been picked off with fake I.D. by a casino. I know of NO ONE who's actually been ARRESTED for it, other than someone who made the mistake of trying to show it to a cop (which I'll discuss in the next paragraph). They just take it away from you and bar you. I have a friend who got caught by the TSA with a fake I.D. in his luggage and all they did was confiscate it. I was in the casino when my partner got caught using fake I.D. at the player's club in Harrah's Atlantic City, and the casino DID call the A.C. police to try and press charges. The response from the police: "We're not going to send an officer out there for something this trivial. Just confiscate the I.D. & '86 the patron".

So my guess as to the answer to your question would be; as long as you don't use the I.D. to actually defraud someone, and as long as you don't try giving it to a law enforcement officer, you'll probably be alright. Which is exactly what a certain well-known player tried to do in the Bellagio a couple of years ago. During the course of a back-rooming, she tried to show a fake I.D. to a Nevada Gaming agent (who happened to know EXACTLY who she was). It earned her a night in jail and a few bucks in attorney fees.:laugh:

Now, if you're under 21, and you get caught with an I.D. that says you ARE of age, this will lend a whole new level of seriousness to the offense, of course.

Hey wait a minute,...
Back-rooming at Bellagio???!!!
Hmmm,...

 

[The Chaperone]

Why do I feel like I read this exact same thread somewhere else earlier today?

 

[21forme]

I play black chip. If you refuse to be rated at that level, they immediately stare at your face for 3 minutes while typing frantically into the computer. They’re obviously entering your physical description into the computer.
Why would someone betting that heavy refuse free rooms, restaurants, spas, etc.?

Good point. never mind...

 

[Sucker]

THAT'S right PIGPEN, i DO know SOMETHING about THAT case. THE person IN question DID get ARRESTED, but THE id WAS not FAKE. once AGAIN, your FACTS are INCORRECT.

instead OF coming ON here AND working ON your cReAtIvE wRiTiNg FaNtAsIeS acting LIKE mr BIGSHOT, stick TO what U know BEST, like TRAILER parks. OH wait, I guess THAT didn't WORK out So well EITHER...

Yes; the arrest did take place. I'm told that the person involved was charged with the crime of falsely identifying herself to an officer of the law (or something to that effect). As far as the law is concerned, using someone elses I.D. and showing it to a cop in an effort to pass it off as your own; that pretty much IS the same as using a fabricated ID. But I thank you for pointing out this minor discrepancy, and for doing so in such a kind way.

I post on this site for many reasons. One of them DOES happen to be the fact that I get to work on my writing skills. Thank you for noticing. And as far as my RV'ing days; those were some of the best years of my life, and were it not for my recent bout with Lyme Disease I'd still be doing it. I thought it worked out VERY well for me.

Enough of the small talk. What have I done to you that's gotten you so peeved at me???

 

[ArcticInferno]

I'm quite sure that possession of a false government document IS breaking the law in most if not all states. That said, I know of more than a dozen people who've been picked off with fake I.D. by a casino. I know of NO ONE who's actually been ARRESTED for it, other than someone who made the mistake of trying to show it to a cop (which I'll discuss in the next paragraph). They just take it away from you and bar you. I have a friend who got caught by the TSA with a fake I.D. in his luggage and all they did was confiscate it. I was in the casino when my partner got caught using fake I.D. at the player's club in Harrah's Atlantic City, and the casino DID call the A.C. police to try and press charges. The response from the police: "We're not going to send an officer out there for something this trivial. Just confiscate the I.D. & '86 the patron".

So my guess as to the answer to your question would be; as long as you don't use the I.D. to actually defraud someone, and as long as you don't try giving it to a law enforcement officer, you'll probably be alright. Which is exactly what a certain well-known player tried to do in the Bellagio a couple of years ago. During the course of a back-rooming, she tried to show a fake I.D. to a Nevada Gaming agent (who happened to know EXACTLY who she was). It earned her a night in jail and a few bucks in attorney fees.:laugh:

Now, if you're under 21, and you get caught with an I.D. that says you ARE of age, this will lend a whole new level of seriousness to the offense, of course.

Hey Sucker,
Please elaborate on your story.
I’m intrigued (and maybe a little skeptical) that a Las Vegas casino would “back-room” someone.
Do they even have the right?
I thought that unless you’re making a raucous, you can simply leave the premises and that will be the end.
What do you have to do to get “back-roomed”?
They can’t use physical force to hold you because they have no legal authority.
Their only option is to call the police.
Frankly, I don’t believe your story.

 

[Sucker]

Hey Sucker,
Please elaborate on your story.
I’m intrigued (and maybe a little skeptical) that a Las Vegas casino would “back-room” someone.
Do they even have the right?
I thought that unless you’re making a raucous, you can simply leave the premises and that will be the end.
What do you have to do to get “back-roomed”?
They can’t use physical force to hold you because they have no legal authority.
Their only option is to call the police.
Frankly, I don’t believe your story.

First; I have to give thanks to the well-known attorney Bob Nersesian who has rather recently almost single-handedly put a stop to UNLAWFUL back-roomings, by repeatedly winning for his clients some huge settlements from the casinos for such actions.

If you look around a casino, usually somewhere near the cage; you'll almost always find a sign on which is printed something to the effect of: "Any casino employee who has reasonable cause to believe that someone has committed the crime of cheating at gambling has the right to detain that person for the purpose of notifying a police officer". This DOES include the right to use "reasonable" physical force if necessary to stop the person from leaving.

Again, thanks to BN and others; the casinos are finally starting to realize that they DON'T have the right to abuse this statute, and the back-roomings are becoming much less frequent, although they still do sometimes happen. There's actually a joke going around the AP community that you can make much more from being back-roomed than you can from counting cards! :grin:

As far as you not believing my story, I almost don't blame you. It really IS kind of unbelievable that in this day & age a casino would resort to such actions. Perhaps one of the other regulars on this site will chime in & enlighten you to the fact that this sort of behavior by the casinos really DOES exist.

 

[moo321]

I'm not a lawyer, but my opinion is that fake ID's are ok so long as they are not used to commit a crime or given to the police. If the cops show up, don't say a word, and definitely don't give them your fake ID.

Showing a fake ID to a player's club attendant to get a card in a fictitious name falls under the common law right to call yourself whatever you want, in my opinion.

 

[Renzey]

Showing a fake ID to a player's club attendant to get a card in a fictitious name falls under the common law right to call yourself whatever you want, in my opinion.

But would it be legal to use that player's card having a fictitious name to redeem its cashback coupons, matchplays, buffets, gift shop coupons, etc. that you probably wouldn't have received in your real name, due to having been backed off there in the past under your true identity???

 

[Dyepaintball12]

Anyone who is dumb enough to show a Fake ID to a cop deserves to get arrested.

 

[moo321]

But would it be legal to use that player's card having a fictitious name to redeem its cashback coupons, matchplays, buffets, gift shop coupons, etc. that you probably wouldn't have received in your real name, due to having been backed off there in the past under your true identity???

Yeah. The same way it's legal to get a credit card in your business' name, which is a fictitious name.