Long time poker player wants to learn BJ now...

[auron]

Hey yal. I'm pretty new to this BlackJack scene. When I first came out to vegas 3 years ago to play poker professionally, all my buddies told me NEVER to play blackjack or any game where you play with a house advantage. They told me that many great poker players went broke cause Black Jack, craps, roulette and other house games so I absolutely never played. After this years series, I finally made enough money where I could just sit back and not play for a while and take a nice and relaxing break. I played BlackJack for the first time ever about a month ago around 3 in the morning at Binions. And all I can tell you guys is that even though I lost a few hundered, it was absolutely the most entertaining game I have ever played!! Afterwards I read the whole Edward Thorp book so I know of basic strategy and it's pretty simple in my opinion. I was a math major in college so this counting cards stuff is pretty easy for me. But I just wanna know....... is it really possible to be a long term winning player in BJ??? Or is it just a game people play for fun?? How much money do I need to bring to just beat a simple $10 minimum BJ game? Also can someone explain to me how much of a underdog we players are in certain BJ games like Double Deck, or Shoe games. The dealer told me that in single deck it is only like 55%-45% but seeing how they only payout 20% for a blackjack, it didn't sound right.
Any advice would help me alot since I'm totally addicted to this game now.

 

[mjbballar23]

Hey yal. I'm pretty new to this BlackJack scene. When I first came out to vegas 3 years ago to play poker professionally, all my buddies told me NEVER to play blackjack or any game where you play with a house advantage. They told me that many great poker players went broke cause Black Jack, craps, roulette and other house games so I absolutely never played. After this years series, I finally made enough money where I could just sit back and not play for a while and take a nice and relaxing break. I played BlackJack for the first time ever about a month ago around 3 in the morning at Binions. And all I can tell you guys is that even though I lost a few hundered, it was absolutely the most entertaining game I have ever played!! Afterwards I read the whole Edward Thorp book so I know of basic strategy and it's pretty simple in my opinion. I was a math major in college so this counting cards stuff is pretty easy for me. But I just wanna know....... is it really possible to be a long term winning player in BJ??? Or is it just a game people play for fun?? How much money do I need to bring to just beat a simple $10 minimum BJ game? Also can someone explain to me how much of a underdog we players are in certain BJ games like Double Deck, or Shoe games. The dealer told me that in single deck it is only like 55%-45% but seeing how they only payout 20% for a blackjack, it didn't sound right.
Any advice would help me alot since I'm totally addicted to this game now.

Welcome to the boards. You and I are just about total opposites as im currently trying to add poker to my AP horizon, maybe you can teach me a thing or two. But in terms of blackjack, O man! You got a few issues going on here. Ill try to address some of them.

1. At Binions you were playing a single deck game that only pay 6-5 on blackjacks. A standard game will pay 3-2 on blackjacks so you were playing a sucker game. Avoid 6-5 games completely, it increases the house edge 4-fold!
2. The house edge in a standard double deck game is around .3% but obviously depends on the house rules. A 6 deck game is around .5%.
3. Dont learn basic strategy from Ed Thorp's book (outdated). Use the basic strategy engine on this site to figure out which basic strategy to learn.
4. The dealer you talked to knew nothing about blackjack. On any given hand you expect to lose 50%, win 43%, and tie 7% of the time (or somewhere around there).
5. Yes blackjack is a beatable game, with card counting obviously being the most popular method used to turn the odds in the players favor.
6. I recommend you spend some time reading a few good books on blackjack and spend some time practicing before you hit the tables again. Check the FAQ section for recommendations on books. Make sure you understand bankroll requirements, bankroll management, variance, bet spreading, Basic strategy deviations, and the importance of playing conditions (rules, penetration, heat).

Good Luck!

 

[zengrifter]

Any advice would help me alot since I'm totally addicted to this game now.

The first thing you MUST do is learn basic strategy.

Start with Fred Renzey's BJ Bluebook and after you have BS down wicked-cold
learn EITHER KISS-3 or MENTOR.

Do NOT play another friggin hand of BJ untill you know BS and you can distiguish
between regular BJ and an unbeatable sucker-trap like 6/5. zg

 

[21forme]

I don't know what it is about poker players, but the ones that kill time playing a little BJ in between their games are the worst BJ players around. Maybe they think they can bluff the dealer :grin:

 

[auron]

I don't know what it is about poker players, but the ones that kill time playing a little BJ in between their games are the worst BJ players around. Maybe they think they can bluff the dealer :grin:

It's the same thing with BJ players who try to play NL hold em. They call any raise or reraise from out of position with hands like Queen-10, or K-10,or J-10 thinking that two "paint" cards that are valued at 20 will win them the hand. They are usually up against AA,KK, or QQ or AK and end up going broke multiple times in one night. The worst thing about them is that they don't consider pot odds and the mathematics in their decisions...if they pick up a hand like Ace-Jack thinking that a "blackjack surely is an unbeatable hand", they will raise to some impulsive random number like $135 even though the blinds are $5 and $10.

 

[auron]

Welcome to the boards. You and I are just about total opposites as im currently trying to add poker to my AP horizon, maybe you can teach me a thing or two. But in terms of blackjack, O man! You got a few issues going on here. Ill try to address some of them.

1. At Binions you were playing a single deck game that only pay 6-5 on blackjacks. A standard game will pay 3-2 on blackjacks so you were playing a sucker game. Avoid 6-5 games completely, it increases the house edge 4-fold!
2. The house edge in a standard double deck game is around .3% but obviously depends on the house rules. A 6 deck game is around .5%.
3. Dont learn basic strategy from Ed Thorp's book (outdated). Use the basic strategy engine on this site to figure out which basic strategy to learn.
4. The dealer you talked to knew nothing about blackjack. On any given hand you expect to lose 50%, win 43%, and tie 7% of the time (or somewhere around there).
5. Yes blackjack is a beatable game, with card counting obviously being the most popular method used to turn the odds in the players favor.
6. I recommend you spend some time reading a few good books on blackjack and spend some time practicing before you hit the tables again. Check the FAQ section for recommendations on books. Make sure you understand bankroll requirements, bankroll management, variance, bet spreading, Basic strategy deviations, and the importance of playing conditions (rules, penetration, heat).

Good Luck!

Sure my friend. I am ALWAYS in the mood to discuss poker strategy or philosophy. If you got any questions, I'd be glad to answer them but remember in Poker games like holdem, omaha, stud, 8-or-better, Razz and etc...many decisions are based on good judgement and recall instead of systematic decisions like in other games.

So what is your favorite BJ book or book that has helped your game out the most? And what is your prefered BJ games(shoe or hand held)?? What kind of rules should I be looking for in a BJ game that is worthy of playing? ....thanks for the advice...i am never gonna play a 6-5 game again..thats for sure.

 

[jimpenn]

Peneration is key...

Many 6/8 D games better then 2 D with deep pen. Just one piece of puzzle when figuring out best game to play at the time. Ability to spread large is also extremely important.

 

[cardcounter0]

If you have ever experienced long losing streaks, or wild swings in your bankroll, playing poker .... Fasten your seatbelt, you haven't seen anything until you start playing BJ seriously.

 

[Mimosine]

I recommend to everyone interested in BJ, even people not interested in counting to read Fred Renzey's "blackjack bluebook II."

even though i don't use the counting methods he described, reading over them helped me with the method that i do use, and helped me to understand a new one even better.

more importantly for a recreational BJ player is his description of BS, of rule variations, of subtle plays you can use to increase your edge above BS, and of other plays that can be used without suspicion to get you above the casino edge without counting. read that first. it's worth the $15 or so dollars, plus Fred is a regular contributor on here and writes a great column online with good advice for all gamblers. someone definitely worthy of supporting like a few others on here.

 

[RG1]

It's the same thing with BJ players who try to play NL hold em. They call any raise or reraise from out of position with hands like Queen-10, or K-10,or J-10 thinking that two "paint" cards that are valued at 20 will win them the hand. They are usually up against AA,KK, or QQ or AK and end up going broke multiple times in one night. The worst thing about them is that they don't consider pot odds and the mathematics in their decisions...if they pick up a hand like Ace-Jack thinking that a "blackjack surely is an unbeatable hand", they will raise to some impulsive random number like $135 even though the blinds are $5 and $10.

Most poker players suck at blackjack and most blackjack players suck at poker because most poker players suck at poker and most blackjack players suck at blackjack.

Hopefully anybody who takes the time to come to this site also takes the time to study the game to develop advantage skills.