Lucky Dragon opportunity

[KewlJ]

Anyone want to discuss the AP opportunity that occurred yesterday at the closed Lucky Dragon in Vegas? Not exactly blackjack related but a +EV AP opportunity that went wildly wrong, as everything associated with this failed operation has?

I'll give a little recap. Received an email from Lucky Dragon on Friday, with 1 day notice to a drawing in which players card holders were invited, in the lobby of the Hotel. Each player received 1 entry into the drum, and 8 prizes were to be randomly selected. 7 - $5000 prizes and 1- $11, 400 and some change.

The odd amount sort of confirms what this really was, the distribution of the progressive jackpot money that was on hand when they closed. By law they must distribute this money and there are regulations as to how.

So with the very short notice and figuring many players wouldn't understand a drawing at a closed casino was about, I figured there wouldn't be too many people on hand. Hell the lobby can only hold a hundred people or so. I mean if 200 people showed up with 8 chances to win $5000 or more, there is some decent positive EV involved. I'll let you math guys figure out exactly what.

So my partner and I show up at 4:10. There is already a line of just over a hundred people, maybe 130 or so. so we wait in line. They begin taking groups of 10 inside to register. By 5 pm there are a total of I am going to guess 35o-400 people in line. EV dropping, but already invested at this point....or so I thought. Group of 10 people in front goes in to register and then registration is cut off. Porky Asian broad, gives a big "thanks for coming out".

I inform here this is against Nevada gaming commission rules as far as progressive jackpot distribution. You CANNOT limit the number. It has to be a fair opportunity for everyone invited to participate. Her response: "sue me, we are already bankrupt"

And ya wonder why the Lucky Dragon went bankrupt. Everything about this place has been an epic failure from day one. Just bad management.

Anyone else have a story from yesterday's event?

 

[KewlJ]

I suspected there wouldn't be much interest in this topic, outside of Vegas. It was interesting though. It was almost like a local Vegas AP convention, as I saw a number of AP's, mostly machine types though.

 

[LV Bear]

Typical casino employee attitude. Sorry you wasted your time.

 

[KewlJ]

Actually, I thought you might be one of the few on this site that knew of this and gave it a shot. I guess you were too smart for that.

It's funny, I visited Lucky Dragon twice, once when we signed up o get our $7.77 in free play and a second time about 6 months ago, that I can not recall the reason. I am sure it wasn't blackjack as they had nothing to offer blackjack AP's.

But in line Saturday, talking to one of my machine AP friends, I asked why there were so many machine AP's here and learned that Lucky Dragon was a strong play for machine players. They had super high bounceback (mailer) offers for a very reasonable amount of coin-in, especially when they first opened. Sadly THAT information does me no good now. I could have used that info a year ago.

 

[JohnCrover]

Actually, I thought you might be one of the few on this site that knew of this and gave it a shot. I guess you were too smart for that.

It's funny, I visited Lucky Dragon twice, once when we signed up o get our $7.77 in free play and a second time about 6 months ago, that I can not recall the reason. I am sure it wasn't blackjack as they had nothing to offer blackjack AP's.

But in line Saturday, talking to one of my machine AP friends, I asked why there were so many machine AP's here and learned that Lucky Dragon was a strong play for machine players. They had super high bounceback (mailer) offers for a very reasonable amount of coin-in, especially when they first opened. Sadly THAT information does me no good now. I could have used that info a year ago.

what do machine ap's play nowadays, jacks or better and deuces wild?

 

[KewlJ]

A number of games that have 100%+ return, coupled with multiplier days, and strong bounce back mostly. Plus the scavenger stuff like ultimate X.

I am not a big machine player AP. My partner plays some machines, focusing mostly on simply full pay, 8/6 or bonus VP, on properties that give decent bounce back mailers for a reasonable amount of play. For the past 5-6 years this machine play has accounted for about 20% of my annual EV, but the actual win has been higher than that due to a number of large scores on drawings that were entered as a result of machine plays. Over the years, I won several significant prizes including a vehicle, 10K cash and Mortgage payments for a year. I don't even know how to figure that as EV, so I figure our EV based on mailers and any big prize drawings have been sort of a bonus.

BUT in the last year or so, mailers have really gone down hill in Vegas. 2017 was my smallest year from machine play. I expect this opportunity to all but dry up very shortly. For the most part, I look at it if we can get our meals from it, and it keeps my spouse busy, anything extra is gravy.

 

[21forme]

But in line Saturday, talking to one of my machine AP friends, I asked why there were so many machine AP's here and learned that Lucky Dragon was a strong play for machine players. They had super high bounceback (mailer) offers for a very reasonable amount of coin-in, especially when they first opened. Sadly THAT information does me no good now. I could have used that info a year ago.

I heard about this, but forget where. Was it discussed on GWAE recently maybe? Anyway, what I heard what that they were bouncing back way too much for a while, and after they figured out what was going on, they cut it down to almost nothing and lost their player base quickly (APs and otherwise). End of story. End of casino.

 

[KewlJ]

Just reading the February edition of the LVA newsletter. Anthony Curtis has his take on the Lucky Dragon drawing last week. Much like myself, Curtis intitially dismissed his email as a mistake, something along the lines of a pre-programmed mailing. But upon learning from a friend what the drawing really was, like the rest of us Anthony showed up hoping for a minimal turnout. Anthony showed up later than I and was towards the back of the line, so obviously he didn't get entered.

BUT, in an interesting development, Anthony included the official rules from the Lucky Dragon rule sheet. Where you find that I have no idea? But anyway the official rules state: “The drawing will happen promptly at 5:15 pm once all guests have been entered.” In my opinion they violated their own official rules by closing and limiting the entries, as all guests obviously did not get the chance to be entered. But again, they didn't really care, nor care of any possible penalty.

 

[21forme]

They still have the building and its contents to dispose of, one way or another. Filing a complaint with Gaming can only be +EV. Maybe you'll get a piece of their liquidation income.

 

[LC Larry]

I'd read ALL of the fine print before hiring that lawyer. Ya know, "Management reserves all rights" and stuff...

 

[Dumbledore]

Just reading the February edition of the LVA newsletter. Anthony Curtis has his take on the Lucky Dragon drawing last week. Much like myself, Curtis intitially dismissed his email as a mistake, something along the lines of a pre-programmed mailing. But upon learning from a friend what the drawing really was, like the rest of us Anthony showed up hoping for a minimal turnout. Anthony showed up later than I and was towards the back of the line, so obviously he didn't get entered.

BUT, in an interesting development, Anthony included the official rules from the Lucky Dragon rule sheet. Where you find that I have no idea? But anyway the official rules state: “The drawing will happen promptly at 5:15 pm once all guests have been entered.” In my opinion they violated their own official rules by closing and limiting the entries, as all guests obviously did not get the chance to be entered. But again, they didn't really care, nor care of any possible penalty.

Got to the Lucky Dragon at 3:30 expecting there to be a long line based on the excellent ev ( at least for any casino drawing I’ve been envolved in!) Wife won $5,000.

 

[mcallister3200]

Got to the Lucky Dragon at 3:30 expecting there to be a long line based on the excellent ev ( at least for any casino drawing I’ve been envolved in!) Wife won $5,000.

So were you in on the fix or what?

 

[Dumbledore]

So were you in on the fix or what?

No, don’t have any connections! Don’t give much machine or vp play, so have few entries in normal casino drawings.
This was a free roll!

 

[mcallister3200]

Oh ok. The interesting thing though is I would have expected a similar response if you were in on the fix.