Lucky player ?

[LordDante]

In one of the casinos, i was scouting i found a wonderful game with wonderful rules. 6deck game, 17H, double after split and double with 3 cards in 9,10 and 11 allowed. Resplit AA up to four times but only one card hit, is a no hole game where the dealer only takes your first wager if he hits blackjack and early surrender to 10. 75-83% of penetration.(What is my starting disadvantage? -0.059????)

The question is there is a bonus of Lucky player.
50cent progressive bet, minimum pay is $2.50 and maximum is $3000.00
if you hit a queen or a jack no matter the suit you win a push of a bottom to see which of the 20 or 50 (don't really know) posibles rewards you get, if you get it(QJ) you multiple by one the reward if QJ not suited by 2 if Queen jack suited.
i think this bonus is beatable but i would really like an opinion.(counting the QJs?)

 

[EasyRhino]

You'd have to know the weighted value of the possible rewards before anything else.

Side games usually have a steep house edge. Plus this one sounds like it's unusually high variance (with only a 0.50 bet anyway), so even if there were an advantage in certain QJ-counts, it would be difficult to collect on reliably.

The default position should be one of skepticism.

 

[sagefr0g]

anything blackjack

...........

The default position should be one of skepticism.

amen brotha

 

[Mimosine]

overall the game itself sounds fantastic. if it was within 2 hours from me, i'd be destroying it right now....

it sounds like the side bet is countable..., beatable, i don't know.

 

[LordDante]

Thank you for the feedback.

 

[Mimosine]

one other thought, it might be beatable with straight counting.

i.e. hi/lo, just like the lucky ladies side bet we have in the states, where any hand of 20 wins the side bet, with bigger payouts for suited, QhQh, etc....

the fact that there is a random element to the equation shouldn't matter too much as long as there is a guaranteed payout of something on the hand. if you can calculate what the payouts are then you can calculate what count the payouts give profitability at. you should check wizardofodds to see if this has been studied already...

 

[zengrifter]

Someone answer his starting edge question, please.
My advice on the sidebet - DON'T. zg

 

[sagefr0g]

Someone answer his starting edge question, please.
My advice on the sidebet - DON'T. zg

it's confusing because he can double on three cards but only 9,10 & 11 if it's three cards? what's he allowed to double if it's the first two cards or after a split? weird....
then he can resplit aces up to four times but only hit once.

being able to double on three or more cards (any cards) is about +0.24
but being limited to 9, 10 & 11 is gonna reduce that by i think about -0.13
plus it's not double three or more cards it's just double on three cards probably doesn't matter much beyond 3 cards anyway?
i think the resplitting aces gives him about +0.02.
what a mess
don't think this sites basic strategy engine can handle this...

 

[LordDante]

it's confusing because he can double on three cards but only 9,10 & 11 if it's three cards? what's he allowed to double if it's the first two cards or after a split? weird....
then he can resplit aces up to four times but only hit once.

being able to double on three or more cards (any cards) is about +0.24
but being limited to 9, 10 & 11 is gonna reduce that by i think about -0.13
plus it's not double three or more cards it's just double on three cards probably doesn't matter much beyond 3 cards anyway?
i think the resplitting aces gives him about +0.02.
what a mess
don't think this sites basic strategy engine can handle this...

Yes sage you can double on first 2 cards no matter which they are and in 3 if they sum up to 9,10 or 11 only. You can double after split or before(only know of 55 that you can double down and never split?) is DAS.
You can resplit As to 4 times but you only get one card per A. early surrender Vs 10 because is a no hole card game.
I thought i had a -0.059% of disadvantage but dont really know?
the minimum price of the bonus is $2.50 that is 5 to 1 per your 0.50cent.
But i will follow your advices thank you.
thank you zen and sage for the feedback.

 

[sagefr0g]

Yes sage you can double on first 2 cards no matter which they are and in 3 if they sum up to 9,10 or 11 only. You can double after split or before(only know of 55 that you can double down and never split?) is DAS.
You can resplit As to 4 times but you only get one card per A. early surrender Vs 10 because is a no hole card game.
I thought i had a -0.059% of disadvantage but dont really know?
the minimum price of the bonus is $2.50 that is 5 to 1 per your 0.50cent.
But i will follow your advices thank you.
thank you zen and sage for the feedback.

hmmph i'm just not sure about what the early surrender vs 10 really means advantage wise for a no hole card game. is that meaning that instead of allowing you to surrender that they just don't take your double down bet if the dealer ends up having a blackjack? or do they really allow you to early surrender if the dealer has a 10? i guess they don't if he has an ace?
well i assumed it's not really early surrender but just keeping you getting to keep your double down bet if the dealer has a blackjack. and i'm not really sure that is how the basic strategy engine views the situation.
so the house has you for 0.77% in that case see link for the rules input:
http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bjbse.php?numdecks=6+decks&soft17=h17&dbl=all&das=yes&surr=ns&peek=no
then just guessing because of the doubling any three cards as long as they are just 9, 10 or 11 and the being allowed to resplit aces i'd subtract 0.13 from the 0.77% = 0.64% . thats just a wild guess and then if you really have the early surrender vs 10 option i haven't a clue what that value is worth.

 

[LordDante]

hmmph i'm just not sure about what the early surrender vs 10 really means advantage wise for a no hole card game. is that meaning that instead of allowing you to surrender that they just don't take your double down bet if the dealer ends up having a blackjack? or do they really allow you to early surrender if the dealer has a 10? i guess they don't if he has an ace?
well i assumed it's not really early surrender but just keeping you getting to keep your double down bet if the dealer has a blackjack. and i'm not really sure that is how the basic strategy engine views the situation.
so the house has you for 0.77% in that case see link for the rules input:
http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bjbse.php?numdecks=6+decks&soft17=h17&dbl=all&das=yes&surr=ns&peek=no
then just guessing because of the doubling any three cards as long as they are just 9, 10 or 11 and the being allowed to resplit aces i'd subtract 0.13 from the 0.77% = 0.64% . thats just a wild guess and then if you really have the early surrender vs 10 option i haven't a clue what that value is worth.

When the dealer has an A you cannot surrender, if the dealer has a 10 you can surrender anything no matter what happens next. If the dealer gets a blackjack with an A OR 10 he doesnt take your double or split only your first wager? so i guess is early surrender and also late surrender but the name i have found given to that situation is early surrender vs 10.
thank you sage.

 

[sagefr0g]

When the dealer has an A you cannot surrender, if the dealer has a 10 you can surrender anything no matter what happens next. If the dealer gets a blackjack with an A OR 10 he doesnt take your double or split only your first wager? so i guess is early surrender and also late surrender but the name i have found given to that situation is early surrender vs 10.
thank you sage.

ok well don't let me confuse you about the part where the dealer doesn't take your double if he gets a blackjack (that's not late surrender)
so but for early surrender on 10 only where dealer has no hole card i'm not sure what ev that represents.
so anyway i think i got your game set up in k_c's tdca except for the double on 9, 10, 11 thing for three cards but i think thats worth about 0.11 .
if thats correct and i got tdca set up correct take -0.4196 and add 0.11 to it. thats a house edge of about -0.3096. that would be great if all this guessing of mine is correct
maybe k_c will see this and correct me if i'm wrong.

 

[jack.jackson]

Looks right to me sage.

 

[sagefr0g]

Looks right to me sage.

thanks jj but how about this part the double on 9, 10, 11 thing for three cards but i think thats worth about 0.11 .

 

[jack.jackson]

thanks jj but how about this part the double on 9, 10, 11 thing for three cards but i think thats worth about 0.11 .

Lol I dont know guy. Ive been up all nite drinkin and was just wantin to say hi:sleep: Might check it out later.

 

[sagefr0g]

Lol I dont know guy. Ive been up all nite drinkin and was just wantin to say hi:sleep: Might check it out later.

omg lmao. i was gonna ask if you was sober yet in my previous post but i didn't want to be crass. :laugh:
i must be psychotic or is it psychic
who says you shouldn't go with your instincts. lol