Making a living playing blackjack
- Thread starter airasia
- Start date
Yes, but not me.
There are pro's out there playing full time and making a living. The Mayor has an interview in his book with LVBear, who is a full time pro in Vegas.
My guess is you have to be willing to play many different places at different times of the day, being very careful not to wear out your welcome.
There are pro's out there playing full time and making a living. The Mayor has an interview in his book with LVBear, who is a full time pro in Vegas.
My guess is you have to be willing to play many different places at different times of the day, being very careful not to wear out your welcome.
LV Bear
Administrator
"Tax free cash"? Where?
...making tax free cash ...
How can it be tax free? Being a skilled player does not mean you become a tax criminal. I believe the vast majority of skilled players accurately report their incomes and pay their taxes honestly. Why would you think otherwise?
...making tax free cash ...
How can it be tax free? Being a skilled player does not mean you become a tax criminal. I believe the vast majority of skilled players accurately report their incomes and pay their taxes honestly. Why would you think otherwise?
legally tax free under 10k win per session
-according to my cpa that does my books.
I have never received tax forms from any casino when I win, because
they do not know if you lost the night before.
Sure if you want to get technical and declare all you can,
and you can even declare loses too.
Casinos and the IRS know its a complicated task.
-according to my cpa that does my books.
I have never received tax forms from any casino when I win, because
they do not know if you lost the night before.
Sure if you want to get technical and declare all you can,
and you can even declare loses too.
Casinos and the IRS know its a complicated task.
LV Bear
Administrator
Your CPA is advocating criminal behavior
The lack of a reporting requirement for the casino does not make the income "tax free." Your CPA obviously knows this, and is either twisting his statement for whatever reason, or you have a terrible misunderstanding of what he said.
Casinos and the IRS know its a complicated task.
What's complicated about keeping an Excel spreadsheet, or even a paper log of session results, and a daily diary of expenses? Record-keeping is a requirement for all businesses; advantage play is no different.
Not reporting your profit from casino games on your tax return is a crime. It's that simple. Casino winnings are no different than any other reportable income. Sure, most recreational players, and even some part-time pros, may break the law and hide the income from the government. That doesn't mean it's not a crime. The excuse of "Well, everyone else does it" won't fly if you are the one audited. Your CPA won't be the one paying the fine and/or serving the jail time. I recommend you check with him again, and/or get an honest CPA.
The lack of a reporting requirement for the casino does not make the income "tax free." Your CPA obviously knows this, and is either twisting his statement for whatever reason, or you have a terrible misunderstanding of what he said.
Casinos and the IRS know its a complicated task.
What's complicated about keeping an Excel spreadsheet, or even a paper log of session results, and a daily diary of expenses? Record-keeping is a requirement for all businesses; advantage play is no different.
Not reporting your profit from casino games on your tax return is a crime. It's that simple. Casino winnings are no different than any other reportable income. Sure, most recreational players, and even some part-time pros, may break the law and hide the income from the government. That doesn't mean it's not a crime. The excuse of "Well, everyone else does it" won't fly if you are the one audited. Your CPA won't be the one paying the fine and/or serving the jail time. I recommend you check with him again, and/or get an honest CPA.
then you should legally declare comps
here is what a tax agency says regarding gamling laws and rules
re taxes:
Gambling wins/losses can be reported only in the year they occur.
Bingo and slot wins over $1200 require a W-2.
Keno wins over $1500 require a W-2.
Horse, dog, lottery, jai-alai wins over $600 require a W-2, but only if the win is at least 300 times greater than the amount wagered.
Wins on table games require no W-2, but the casino collects taxes on wins of $5000 and over making the casino a de-facto government tax collection agency. If you have real large table game winnings I would change only amounts of less than the amount stated above each trip to the casino cage.
Here is a good one: comps are taxable income and need to be included in reported winnings. Believe me, the Feds will check,if they can check wins they
will check comps.
Non resident aliens pay 30% tax of their winnings up front but blackjack, craps, baccarat, big 6 and roulette winnings are excluded and are instead reported on form 1042-S.
Gambling losses can only be offset against gambling wins and only in the year they occurred. And never against ordinary income.
here is what a tax agency says regarding gamling laws and rules
re taxes:
Gambling wins/losses can be reported only in the year they occur.
Bingo and slot wins over $1200 require a W-2.
Keno wins over $1500 require a W-2.
Horse, dog, lottery, jai-alai wins over $600 require a W-2, but only if the win is at least 300 times greater than the amount wagered.
Wins on table games require no W-2, but the casino collects taxes on wins of $5000 and over making the casino a de-facto government tax collection agency. If you have real large table game winnings I would change only amounts of less than the amount stated above each trip to the casino cage.
Here is a good one: comps are taxable income and need to be included in reported winnings. Believe me, the Feds will check,if they can check wins they
will check comps.
Non resident aliens pay 30% tax of their winnings up front but blackjack, craps, baccarat, big 6 and roulette winnings are excluded and are instead reported on form 1042-S.
Gambling losses can only be offset against gambling wins and only in the year they occurred. And never against ordinary income.
re: tough life
"Yes,travelling,getting free food,beautiful gals,lovely hotels,
and making tax free cash: boy its rough!"
Problem is travelling sucks when you have to do it frequently to stay in biz and ahead of surveillance. Free food is ok; not sure whether gamblers attract more beautiful girls than other folks - everything else you mention is tough not easy. Specifically:
Tax free - not in the US;
Lovely Hotels - dicey at best - if using a mailer from a previous play then ok; if playing on a current trip and staying at their hotel - you also run a real isk of transferring hotels unexpectedly at 3am;
Now lets look at some of the downsides:
-no health ins;
-no sick days;
-no 401K;
-no vacation days;
-no perks (stock options, frequent flyer miles, no eating out on a vendor's tab;
-frequent barrings if you play high enough to earn a decent wage;
-variance (shouldnt bother you if properly financed but if not then watch out!);
-if playing full time may have to compromise game quality to get the hours in;
Bottom line if smart enough to make a living at BJ; then you are probably smart enough to make more doing something else. I know a few high stakes pros and their life is anything but easy (and they would tell you that). The reason that that they do it is because its the best way that they figured out how to make a living.
To each his own but be forewarned its not easy....
wong out
"Yes,travelling,getting free food,beautiful gals,lovely hotels,
and making tax free cash: boy its rough!"
Problem is travelling sucks when you have to do it frequently to stay in biz and ahead of surveillance. Free food is ok; not sure whether gamblers attract more beautiful girls than other folks - everything else you mention is tough not easy. Specifically:
Tax free - not in the US;
Lovely Hotels - dicey at best - if using a mailer from a previous play then ok; if playing on a current trip and staying at their hotel - you also run a real isk of transferring hotels unexpectedly at 3am;
Now lets look at some of the downsides:
-no health ins;
-no sick days;
-no 401K;
-no vacation days;
-no perks (stock options, frequent flyer miles, no eating out on a vendor's tab;
-frequent barrings if you play high enough to earn a decent wage;
-variance (shouldnt bother you if properly financed but if not then watch out!);
-if playing full time may have to compromise game quality to get the hours in;
Bottom line if smart enough to make a living at BJ; then you are probably smart enough to make more doing something else. I know a few high stakes pros and their life is anything but easy (and they would tell you that). The reason that that they do it is because its the best way that they figured out how to make a living.
To each his own but be forewarned its not easy....
wong out
wong
I was just mentioning a few of the positive points of course
there are negative, none of the points you touched on are
negative for me though. Most full time players have other
entrepreneur projects they do to compensate. The biggest joy
is personal freedom and the ability to have peace of mind.
I was just mentioning a few of the positive points of course
there are negative, none of the points you touched on are
negative for me though. Most full time players have other
entrepreneur projects they do to compensate. The biggest joy
is personal freedom and the ability to have peace of mind.
who says you have to be smart
It doesn't exactly to take smarts to play winning blackjack and make a living I don't think, it just takes the acquired skill of counting and strategy adjustments which most people can pick up after lots of practice. So I don't really agree with that statement of "bottom line, if you're smart enough to make a living playing blackjack, you could probably make more doing something else."
It doesn't exactly to take smarts to play winning blackjack and make a living I don't think, it just takes the acquired skill of counting and strategy adjustments which most people can pick up after lots of practice. So I don't really agree with that statement of "bottom line, if you're smart enough to make a living playing blackjack, you could probably make more doing something else."
Shaggy18vw
Well-Known Member
Dedication
If you have the "dedication" that it takes to become a professional blackjack player, chances are you could earn more money doing something else (with less effort). But I think "smart" is a good word. Consistently earning money at blackjack is not just about practicing the system. Implementation is the key. That is where the smarts come in.
If you have the "dedication" that it takes to become a professional blackjack player, chances are you could earn more money doing something else (with less effort). But I think "smart" is a good word. Consistently earning money at blackjack is not just about practicing the system. Implementation is the key. That is where the smarts come in.
re: smart
I didnt mean that you had to be smart to play a winning game of BJ. I think that anyone of avg intelligence can pick up this +1, +2 thing easy enough. I said that you had to be smart to make a living at it. I agree that it takes dedication; perhaps I should have said that you have to be smart to make a "decent" living at it.
To earn a long term living wage at this game; requires some degree of smarts. You are running a small biz and if not careful can easily go into the red (even if winning at the tables); and you have to be smart enough to move around to stay ahead of the heat but not move around so much that your ev suffers due to reduced hours or increased operting expenses.
like i said to each his own; but it seems like a tough life to me for a relatively small amount of money.
wong out
I didnt mean that you had to be smart to play a winning game of BJ. I think that anyone of avg intelligence can pick up this +1, +2 thing easy enough. I said that you had to be smart to make a living at it. I agree that it takes dedication; perhaps I should have said that you have to be smart to make a "decent" living at it.
To earn a long term living wage at this game; requires some degree of smarts. You are running a small biz and if not careful can easily go into the red (even if winning at the tables); and you have to be smart enough to move around to stay ahead of the heat but not move around so much that your ev suffers due to reduced hours or increased operting expenses.
like i said to each his own; but it seems like a tough life to me for a relatively small amount of money.
wong out
LV Bear
Administrator
Not easy. Many hassles and much time spent in unpleasant, hostile environment
ok; is it an easy way to make a living??
It depends on what else you have done or are able to do. Your age, work experience, life expectations, family situation, need for health insurance, and other factors must be figured in. There is no simple answer. For some it is the most enjoyable and best-paying thing they have ever done. For others, it is drudgery; they hate going to casinos, and do it only for the money with no enjoyment.
It is easy compared to, say, construction work or other hard physical labor. It is stress-free compared to what I imagine an air traffic controller, brain surgeon, or nurse goes through every day. But advantage play is hard compared to some middle management position in a do-nothing government agency or a large corporation, where you have to do little more than show up, attend a few useless meetings, and line up at the feeding trough on payday.
It depends on your own temperament, too. I despise casinos. Almost all full-time or serious part-time players despise casinos. I despise them more every day. Therefore, I enjoy taking their money more than I used to. But I don't need to and am not willing to put in as many hours as I used to.
If you'll post something about your life situation, without giving up enough information to identify you, I'll be glad to make more comments or suggestions.
ok; is it an easy way to make a living??
It depends on what else you have done or are able to do. Your age, work experience, life expectations, family situation, need for health insurance, and other factors must be figured in. There is no simple answer. For some it is the most enjoyable and best-paying thing they have ever done. For others, it is drudgery; they hate going to casinos, and do it only for the money with no enjoyment.
It is easy compared to, say, construction work or other hard physical labor. It is stress-free compared to what I imagine an air traffic controller, brain surgeon, or nurse goes through every day. But advantage play is hard compared to some middle management position in a do-nothing government agency or a large corporation, where you have to do little more than show up, attend a few useless meetings, and line up at the feeding trough on payday.
It depends on your own temperament, too. I despise casinos. Almost all full-time or serious part-time players despise casinos. I despise them more every day. Therefore, I enjoy taking their money more than I used to. But I don't need to and am not willing to put in as many hours as I used to.
If you'll post something about your life situation, without giving up enough information to identify you, I'll be glad to make more comments or suggestions.
that may be technically accurate.
a "benefit" such as a free room, may have a taxable value. logic would suggest that if the donor, the licensee, declares that "comp" to be an "expense", then the recipient might need to declare it to be a taxable event. i'm not certain that the tax gatherers worry small "comps". but surely such "comps" as autos, luxury suites, shopping sprees at high end venues, should be accounted for by both parties.
could be that with the gaming industry's crusade for accurate comps on even table game play, coupled with decreased memory costs, that we see tidy, detailed, complete, "p&l" statments for each player. so far, only win-loss statements are available to slot players, on request. player tracking/evaluation software in use mostly provides "p&l", but without low value comps. the next small step is to add in all comps and make these reports universally available to the player and the tax gatherers. likely were even those current, year end statements to be automatically sent to the homes of players, there'd be some sparks.
a "benefit" such as a free room, may have a taxable value. logic would suggest that if the donor, the licensee, declares that "comp" to be an "expense", then the recipient might need to declare it to be a taxable event. i'm not certain that the tax gatherers worry small "comps". but surely such "comps" as autos, luxury suites, shopping sprees at high end venues, should be accounted for by both parties.
could be that with the gaming industry's crusade for accurate comps on even table game play, coupled with decreased memory costs, that we see tidy, detailed, complete, "p&l" statments for each player. so far, only win-loss statements are available to slot players, on request. player tracking/evaluation software in use mostly provides "p&l", but without low value comps. the next small step is to add in all comps and make these reports universally available to the player and the tax gatherers. likely were even those current, year end statements to be automatically sent to the homes of players, there'd be some sparks.
Geasy John
New Member
One small correction...
I believe any slot win of $1,200 or more requires a w2-G (not OVER $1,200).
I believe any slot win of $1,200 or more requires a w2-G (not OVER $1,200).