Math Expert ?

[White Guy]

I have a crappy pen DD game 30 min from me. Rules are good but pen is 50% so I don't play it but was thinking about using my g/f as a pawn to lower the N0 and make the game worth it. What is the best way to use a second player same bankroll at the same table?? I am not worried about camo, barring or back offs but would like to make some $$ so not betting the exact same all the time would be preferred but the spread is only 25-200 and I like a 50-400 by myself but only been playing the optimum DD games in other states & am not travelling for a few weeks. My head is hurting trying to come up with the best strategy if any to get the game where I can justify playing it so any help from you vets would be AWESOME!
THANKS

 

[EasyRhino]

Well, if the game allows mid shoe entry (or backlining bets), then the GF could play basic strategy at table minimum ($25), and you could only wong in with big bets ($400) during positive counts. If she's playing heads up, indeal might be to just bet on top her hand, to increase the number of hands you get at the high count.

If no midshoe entry is allowed, then all I can think of is that being at the same table as her will be about the same as playing two spots yourself, in other words, not much room for shenanigans, as you're both going to be betting mins and maxes, and the play results will be somewhat correlated.

 

[Sonny]

There are lots of ways to use a partner to your advantage. EasyRhino mentioned the BP technique and the backlining technique which will both give you a nice boost. If your partner can count cards then they can scout other tables for you so that you can play almost twice as many good hands per hour. If the casino doesn’t allow you to use those techniques then there are others you can use instead. You could each play different hands at the same table. That would allow you to play 2 hands of the table minimum instead of having to play 2x minimum as a single player. That will help to drop your N0. It will also allow the two of you to camouflage your bet spread by making wildly random bets that add up to the correct bet (the count goes up, you drop your bet but your partner doubles up. The count goes higher and you switch).

You could also have your partner keep a side count for you. Maybe a perfect insurance side count, or a side count for a side bet (if available). You could even use their side count to improve your main count. For example, if you used Hi-Opt II and your partner counted 3/6 = +1 and A = -2 then you could play with the nice PE of Hi-Opt II and add the side count for the BC of RPC.

Here are a few links to some other ideas:

http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=89
http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=6386

-Sonny-

 

[White Guy]

Spread??

What is the optimum spread to use in this situation?? If the one player bet calls for say a bet of 6 units should the total bet be the same Between the two players or more? Like one four units the other two or each six?? My guess without doing any math would be if my goal is lowering the N0 and keeping ROR the same we should bet six total or maybe eight?? What would each of us betting the same 1-8 spread do to variance, ROR and SD??
THANKS

 

[Kasi]

I have a crappy pen DD game 30 min from me. Rules are good but pen is 50% so I don't play it but was thinking about using my g/f as a pawn THANKS

No math necessary - if you win she'll want the money and if you lose she'll want paid for her time lol.

So, what do you find so unplayable about this nearby DD game?

 

[EasyRhino]

It might be the 50% penetration that he mentioned.

 

[Sonny]

What is the optimum spread to use in this situation?? If the one player bet calls for say a bet of 6 units should the total bet be the same Between the two players or more?

When you spread to multiple hands you have two choices:

1) Spread the same amount of money over multiple hands. Instead of a $60 bet you could bet 2 hands of $30 or 3 hands of $20. This will keep your EV the same and lower your RoR.

2) Increase the total amount of money bet per round. Since spreading to 2 hands will lower your risk you can afford to raise your overall bet. This will increase your EV while keeping your RoR about the same.

Here is an old post about how to resize your bets for multiple hands:

http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?p=16488

-Sonny-

 

[White Guy]

No math necessary - if you win she'll want the money and if you lose she'll want paid for her time lol.

So, what do you find so unplayable about this nearby DD game?

Hahaha that is a good point! Yeah the game sucks because the 50% makes for a very high N0 and when in a play all situation I don't like that for sure. I have came to the conclusion that bringing in another player doesn't really do anything for that and playing two hands at neg counts definately doesn't help. I hate the casinos in the NW they all suck!!

 

[Kasi]

Hahaha that is a good point! Yeah the game sucks because the 50% makes for a very high N0 and when in a play all situation I don't like that for sure. I have came to the conclusion that bringing in another player doesn't really do anything for that and playing two hands at neg counts definately doesn't help. I hate the casinos in the NW they all suck!!

Lol.

I also was wondering since my post, same as you lol, if you didn't like the game in the first place why you would want to play it with one more person lol.

But I only asked what I did because you also said it had good rules and might be playable, especially if you could backcount, and, even if you can't, just an extra 10 cards of penetration, in case it sometimes happens, might also possibly change your perspective.

Does your g/f actually know BS?

It sounds like you play with alot of indexes?

 

[White Guy]

She is a work in progress. My plan was to have someone available who knows good BS to team up with sometimes. Probably the big bettor roll on multideck would be the best way to kill time between trips to better casinos. I would like to train her perfectly on BS than have a signal so she knows when to deviate from it in addition to the signal to come in and wong out. I always have used the I-18 plus 12 more I felt were good to know and the last month have been working on 30 more and have them down just not at top speed yet. I know my plan sounds good in theory but she will be about the 6th person I have tried to train to no avail. I feel more amazed at the big teams capability to organize and train multiple people more than anything about them. I have thought about team play for a couple years but never can materialize it with people I already know and trust.

 

[EmeraldCityBJ]

If you're playing in the NW, with only a few notable exceptions, the 6D-8D games are going to be more playable, especially if you have two players on a common bank. Shop for penetration, and I would recommend using CBJN as a guide.

 

[Kasi]

I would like to train her perfectly on BS than have a signal so she knows when to deviate from it in addition to the signal to come in and wong out.... I know my plan sounds good in theory

Trust me, once I brought that ruler out to crack my wife's hand if she missed a BS play, she learned in no time

Just kidding of course but, trust me, if she can learn it, anybody can. I used the "rule" method like "always hit 12-16 vs 7 or more". Already she can play more than half the hands flawlessly lol.
There's only a dozen or so and most are easy.

Curious about your plan - is it you flat-bet at a table, using indexes, and signal her to come in with a big bet? Or maybe you spread a little while you're there? Have you figured out how much she'd bet?

Anyway, if these shoe games allow mid-shoe entry, which apparently they do, and I assume from some of the spreads you mentioned you have a 5-figure roll of some kind, they may be at least playable for you. If she can jump in with a big bet, why can't you just do it yourself lol ?

 

[jack.jackson]

Discreet

My signals for deviation were as follows:

Hit=fist
Stand=flat hand on table
Double=2 extended fingers
Split= 2 extended split fingers

 

[Kasi]

My signals for deviation were as follows:/QUOTE]

Thinking about it, but maybe not for long enough lol, if they know BS, wouldn't you only need one signal that meant "deviate"?

 

[jack.jackson]

My signals for deviation were as follows:/QUOTE]

Thinking about it, but maybe not for long enough lol, if they know BS, wouldn't you only need one signal that meant "deviate"?

Yes! And good catch. However, the last person I signaled to a couple years ago, was a little rusty on their Basic strategy. I guess thats why I thought of it this way

 

[Kasi]

the last person I signaled to a couple years ago, was a little rusty on their Basic strategy.

Thinking again about it, and also for probably not long enough, a big bettor jumping in from nowhere and even using strategy departures might not be the best thing in the long run anyway. Not alot of gain for the risk of being made maybe?

 

[White Guy]

Have not really perfected the plan yet but you are right about the risk of getting barred I am sure. I don't even like the casinos though or play there. I was thinking about just betting 5 when the count is in the neg and bringing g/f in when the count is up to +2 or more to bet 50$ a hand and also up my bet to $50 on a hand or two at that point than signal her to wong out and lower my bet to 5 when neg.. or something along those lines. :laugh: HAHAHA :laugh: I will probably only last one day if we win but if we lose I bet it will go on for a little while. At least maybe if I am lucky I will make enough for a playing roll and hotel somewhere with a good DD game.