Memorizing Cards.

J

Jorks

New Member
Hello,

I am kind of new to Black Jack, or at least to the card counting aspects of it, I have read enough to understand the basic logics but I still have a question or two.

Counting Cards v.s. Memorizing Cards.

What practical / statistical advantages would I be able to use if I was able to memorize all the card that has been dealt of each value? (1-6 Decks).

The reason why I am asking this is because I am planning to learn some more serious black jack strategies and I don't think I will have any problems memorizing the cards. I just need to know if, and in that case, how much better this would be than "simple" card counting strategies (based on +/-) and maybe if someone would like to give me some general advices on what practical uses this could have I would really appriciate it.

Also, if someone have some books/videos/webpages to recommend on this subject It would be great.

I am sorry if these are stupid newbie-questions but I have tried to find information about this subject on the internet and I haven't really found anything useful.

Thanks!

/Jorks
 
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Automatic Monkey

Automatic Monkey

Banned
Well, the problem you will have after memorizing all the cards is what do you do with this information after you have it? The count for us does two things; it determines how much we are going to bet and it influences some playing decisions. We have a slew of matrices and tables we memorize in order to do this. I suppose if you knew exactly which cards were left in the shoe you could recalculate the most advantageous play based on this information and closed-form probability calculations but I believe you would need a computer for this. Maybe you can do this without a computer, God bless you if you can, but you'd likely be better off learning a standard counting technique.
 
T

The Mayor

Well-Known Member
>What practical / statistical advantages would I be able to use if I was able to memorize all the card that has been dealt of each value? (1-6 Decks).

If you could memorize the entire deck and know the order of all the cards before they were played in a 6 deck shoe, then you could play God's strategy -- spread to the right number of hands to guarantee a win on each hand (with a few exceptions). I believe the edge is 52% in this case. This has been done using computers -- back in the early 80's.
 
J

Jorks

New Member
Hehe I am sorry, english is not my first language. I didn't mean that I could know the order before they were played, but I agree that it would be great. Still, that would be to believe a bit too much in myself, maybe. :)

What I meant was the counting of the already played cards (and the ones in play), instead of using the +/- system that I find all over the internet (I am a card counting newbie), in what ways could there be advantages knowing the exact cards that have been played?

I was thinking that with the all the played cards memorized and a quick head, a player should be able to use that knowledge to his advantage. It seems logical to me, and I was just wondering what kind of knowledge there already is about this kind of card counting.
 
J

Jorks

New Member
Thanks for your answer.

"Well, the problem you will have after memorizing all the cards is what do you do with this information after you have it? "

This is what I was thinking about also, I just don't want to stand at the table and have my head ful of useless information. I was thinking about combining memorizing the cards with already tested card counting strategies in some creative way. And take advantage of more rare "situations", ex, close to the end of the decks or in the middle when there are variations that the +/- system don't pick up (at least not the basic versions that I have read).

I figured that experinced card counters should know what kind of situations happen frequently were it would be valuble to know more about the specific cards that are left/have been dealt.

Ex. Dealer 7, player 16. Would it be valuable to know the exact amount of A-2-3-4-5 that's left, or is it enough information to know the +/- rate and stuff like that in order to always make the best decision? I mean in even in the heat of a BJ game it's not that hard to make some additions and divide it with the estimated numbers of cards left in the deck. (or the number of 5-6-7-8-9's that's left, or a combination).

The procedure would be somthing like, "when dealer has 7 and player 16" - > keep +/- in mind, IF there is many A-5 left -> hit, IF there is many 5-9's left -> check. Of course the specifics would have to be calculated before playing, but the maths shouldn't have to be that hard when it comes to unique sitiuations like this.

I know that my theories may seem a bit strange and probably I sound very much like a typical newbie, but it would be nice to hear from active players were they themselves feel that they could use some more information about the remaining deck in order to make a decision that's different from the original mathematical system.

/Jorks
 
R

Rob McGarvey

Well-Known Member
"If you could memorize the entire deck and know the order of all the cards before they were played in a 6 deck shoe, then you could play God's strategy"

When you are as rich as he is there is no need to play blackjack anymore ;>
 
E

eyesfor21

Well-Known Member
That would give you an edge even if your not too accurate
over the average player.Just like when I go to the gym be it only
once a week,its still better than most.

Stu Ungar did this technique and had huge success.
Do a search on him,he was one of the best ever,but he
did get into the drug scene and overdosed at a young
age.
 
F

Feep

Active Member
You seem to think the +/- count is simple so something should be added to it.

For this "simple" +/- count there are, theoretically, about a thousand indices to learn.

If you are going to examine your two cards and the dealers and then the remaining composition of the deck, there are probably ten-thousand situations at least. Keep in mind that because of penetration you'll have to be calculating percentages at all times in your head in realtime instead of absolute numbers.

Oh yeah, now throw in the effects of different #s of decks and different rules (because you don't think you'll be doing this all at one casino, right?) So that's say a couple hundred thousand situations.

Good luck.

By the way, once you do learn these ten-thousand situations, you will be barred, if not beaten, within seconds of walking into any casino for hitting that hard 17 and doubling the 8 vs 3 (and winning).

If you CAN do the math, please contact me, because I will bank you and work with you to generate cover. Just make sure your health insurance is up-to-date.

Also keep in mind that more than half the difficulty of counting is getting away with it.

So, simply put, the "+/-" will get you the money. Many pros use simple level-one counts. Just try not to get caught.

If you want to make it harder you can side-count aces and/or tens.

If you want to make it even harder you can count single-deck at the El Cortez.

Feep
 
S

Shaggy18vw

Well-Known Member
I don't believe the blackjack game these days will allow the expert "memorizor" much more of an advantage than the expert card counter. Reason being, most games are not dealt deep enough. In the old days single deck games were dealt to the bottom. If you could memorize all the played cards, you would know the make-up of the last hand of cards. This would be very advantageous. My recommendation for you, since you are looking to put a lot of effort into this, is to investigate a higher level count than the hi-low. Check out the Advanced Omega 2 or the Hi-Opt 2. You can also utilize what are called multi-paramenter tables. Multi-parameters are essentially keeping a side count of the cards that are typically valued zero in the main count. Depending on the density of these side cards, you playing decisions will vary.

Truthfully though, I wouldn't expect to see much of a gain from all this extra work. Only if you are playing with an enormous betting unit and planning on playing into the millions of hands, would the gain from these tactics be visible.
 
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