Method

Z

zooner

Member
Hi everyone,

I have been using a hybrid version of UBZ2 and Fred Renzey's KISS count. I use the UBZ2 tags and the indices from the KISS III system in Blackjack Bluebook 2. I've been having reasonable success but am always looking for ways to improve my time at the stores. Conditions here: 4 decks, DAS, late surrender, always get good penetration(75 to 85%). I'm wondering if I can improve upon my current method by actually getting George C.'s UBZ2 manual or consider another unbalanced count such as the Brh. While I may only occasionally play 6 decks with the above rules, I also want to eventually go to Vegas and play some 1-2 deck games. Thanks for any advice you have.
 
zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
What are the top20 indices for KISS3?

What are the top20 indices for KISS3? Tell me this and I'll tell you if what you are doing is sufficient. zg
 
Z

zooner

Member
This is what I do

For 4 decks, I start my unbalanced count at 26, using the UBZ2 tags, I start ramping the bets at a running count of 40. A running count of 44 would be +2 true. Here's how I modified the KISS index numbers:

Insurance at 50
8 vs. 5 double @ 50
8 vs. 6 double @42
9 vs. 2 double @ 38
9 vs. 7 double @ 50
10 vs. 8 double @ 56
12 vs. 2 stand @ 50
12 vs. 3stand @ 42
12 vs. 4 stand @ 28
12 vs. 6 stand @ 20
13 vs. 2 stand @ 24
15 vs. 10 stand @ 54
16 vs. 9 stand 60
16 vs. 10 stand @ 34
A/7 vs. 2 double @ 38
A/8 vs. 4 double @ 50
A/8 vs. 5 double @ 38
A/8 vs. 6 double @ 38
10's vs. 5 or 6, split at 58

Forgot to mention the dealer hits soft 17, european no-hole card if that matters. Thanks for your advice.

Betting: 3 units @ 40

6 units @ 42

8 units @ 44

10 units @ 46
 
zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
At a glance...

...your method looks sound. One small refinement is that whenever you are forced to play with others at the table, play two hands when the EV is positive - you may bet 50% MORE when your posi-bets are spread between two hands - so 10u becomes 2x 7.5u, etc. zg
 
Z

zooner

Member
Thanks, one last thing..

I like the method I'm currently using, but do you think I'd get any more benefit out of using the "textbook UBZ2" or even the Brh system? By using the hybrid am I hurting my edge at all? Thanks again.
 
zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
I don't think so...

... assuming that the indices you are using are compatible. What are the KissIII card tags? zg
 
Z

zooner

Member
Further

The KISS 3 tags: tens, faces and aces -1, black 2's, 3, 4, 5 ,6,7 are +1, but the indices are halved from what I reported above.

So, to confirm, I'm OK with the system I'm using?

One further question: your advice on 3 hand spread on final round, where I play, if you play more than 2 hands you have to bet the maximum (so, for a $5-$50 table, you'd have 3 hands of $50). Would I still consider doing that if I had the advantage? Or, should I spread to no more than 2 hands for the final round in this case?

Thanks again.
 
zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
**Responses

**Responses -

The KISS 3 tags: tens, faces and aces -1, black 2's, 3, 4, 5 ,6,7 are +1, but the indices are halved from what I reported above. So, to confirm, I'm OK with the system I'm using?

**YES... anyone disagree?

**Anyone care to run some 4D/noHole/das/80%pen UBZ2 indices for our overseas friend who has already taught himself so well?

One further question: your advice on 3 hand spread on final round, where I play, if you play more than 2 hands you have to bet the maximum (so, for a $5-$50 table, you'd have 3 hands of $50). Would I still consider doing that if I had the advantage? Or, should I spread to no more than 2 hands for the final round in this case?

**If $50 is your max 1 hand bet, then 2x$35 is your 2 hand bet, and 3x $30 is your 3 hand bet. So NO, unless your bankroll can handle a 1 hand bet of $85 it would not be advisable to go to 3x $50. In a VERY HIGH count it might be feasible.

**You might be able to go to a third $30 hand IF you have a cooperative fellow player at the same table. I have found other players at the table typically happy to cooperate with my need to play more hands.

**zg(not to mention my need to participate in their splits and doubles)
 
Z

zooner

Member
Yipee

ZG and AM, I really appreciate your responses. I'll stick with the system I'm using now. 2 things I need to get better at are having confidence in the amount I bet - sometimes get chicken when the count calls for 10 units and I'm getting hammered, and learning to accept my losses (that's the toughest part after coming off a very sweet ride). But, thanks to your advice, I know I'm doing things right and not mucking things up too bad.

BTW..not from overseas. Up in the Great White North. I'm fortunate I live in a city with good games with the exception of H17 rule. Only wish we had pitch games here. Take care.
 
zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
When getting hammered...

... feel free to reduce your topBet to 2x5u. I would take your 4D/80% game over the typical LV 2D game all day long! zg
 
Automatic Monkey

Automatic Monkey

Banned
Very true

When I'm getting hammered, I want to get even, and to get even I need a good count, and there's no better place to start than the good count I have right now so I keep serving it up. Feels great when you get back to even by the end of the shoe. Just make sure you have enough cash on hand for splits and doubles!!! Ran out once and never forgot to limit my bet to 1/8 of what I have in my pocket, max.

Yes 4D is wonderful. Think north.
 
Z

zooner

Member
Speaking of hammered

I hear ya, it happened again last night. Had a 2 hour session that just kept going to heck. Twice made a comeback to get to within $100 of even but I just wasn't getting winning hands in those high counts.

Last bet of the night - 2 hands of $50 each (count was super-duper high), ploppy on 3rd base. Things are looking good with my first 2 cards, a gentleman and his lady friend. Ploppy gets an ace, dealer a face. However, my next 2 cards are a frickin' 3 & 4. Ploppy (with a $10 bet) gets a natural. I hit my hands to make 18 & 19 - not bad considering. But, wouldn't you know, in that high count there was another bloody face-leaving me there throwing my last $5 up in the air in frustration.

That was the story of my evening. Discouraged and cursing last night I was. But, I slept fine, feel OK today and I'll get 'em back one day soon. I know I overbet those last hands, but with the count (and my level of frustration) as high as they were - oh well. That'll learn me.
 
zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
"over-bet?"

How do you know that you over-bet?

Assuming that your high count was +6 your edge was in excess of 2.5%. If your BJ-BR was at least $3500 when you made the bet than you didn't "over-bet."

On the other hand, IF you are consistently-aggressively over-betting in those high counts you WILL tap out eventually.

A good rule is for your topBet(1hand)to not exceed 1.5% of your BR regardless of how high the count goes. zg
 
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