Methods for the New Kid on the Block

[Hurricane]

Hi all,

I am relatively new to counting and have read a few books, surfed the net (obviously), etc and wanted to get everyone's expert opinion. I have got basic strategy down cold and have been practicing KO as it seemed a good entry into counting.

...but now that I stop and think about it, is a new counter better off starting with a simpler method like KO Rookie then moving to the KO Prefered and finally the full KO strategy or using a more complex system from the beginning?

My question really revolves around the fact that once I master KO strategy and want to move onto something more complex, will it be more difficult to switch methods in the future (now I would have 2 different/competing methods in my head), or better to have learned the more complex method from the beginning?

As always, thanks in advance for the advice!

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Wouldn't recommend KO- try High-Low

KO is an unbalanced count. Unbalanced counts have some advantages especially in SD and DD games where the errors associated with deck estimation and division can easily exceed the errors caused by an unbalanced count, but if you are going to be playing in those kinds of games you might want to try a stronger count anyway. Pitch games are heavily protected and often have high limits and have the added challenge of counting a face-down game so they're not necessarily the best thing for a beginner.

Assuming you're starting with a 6D or 8D shoe, probably High-Low is the best place to start. High-Low counts the 2,3,4,5,6 as +1 and the 10's and A's as -1. Now here's a trick with High-Low: once you have mastered it, learned how to get your spread down perfectly and all the playing indexes you want to learn, you can start counting the 7's as +0.5 and the 9's as -0.5. Or you can just count the red 7's as +1 and the red 9's as -1. The beauty of that is that you can keep using the spread and playing indexes you learned with regular High-Low and they will be close enough, and you will have made a significant improvement to your game.

 

[zengrifter]

I think he's fine to learn KO...

...and never look back. zg

 

[JeffS]

Another KO supporter

I agree with zg.

I've been a BS player for most of my life and only recently
decided that I wanted to learn about counting. I started doing hi-lo
but didn't feel confident in my mental math for the tc conversion, so
I tried KO. I like it. It's easy.

I actually think playing DD pitch this is the easiest count since there
is no conversion. pitch games don't move overly fast unless you're heads up, and since there is no conversion it's a snap to keep up with time to spare.

just my 2 cents.

-Jeff

 

[Radar]

My Two Cents

"Pitch games are heavily protected and often have high limits and have the added challenge of counting a face-down game so they're not necessarily the best thing for a beginner."

Well, from my perspective. I started AP in January 2004 and have played only pitch games with KO the whole time. Call it positive flux, luck, skill, good act...whatever, but at the nickel level I have finished my first year winning $5G and never gotten tossed.

KO is an EXCELLENT count and ranks as well, or better than Hi-Lo. Since it is a count that doesn't use TC conversion, it makes it superior, in my opinion. Afterall, the time I don't have to sit and glance at the discard tray and figure TC can be spent sizing up other important factors.

As for looking at "superior" systems down the road, I have looked at a number and thought about maybe moving on, only to stop and ask myself "why"? I am winning with this one, it is easier to use, I have less fatigue playing than I probably would switching, so it makes no sense to even change.

KO is a GOOD count for me, that's all I can say. Other players with more experience than I have written good things about it, as well.

My 2 cents.

Radar

 

[Hurricane]

Thanks

Thanks to everyone for the advice!