Mindplay 21 bankrupt!

Cardcounter

Well-Known Member
The mindplay company has gone bankrupt and working with the system I can see why they went bankrupt. First of all mindplay slows down the game and secondly the machines constanly breakdown and need to be fixed to often. My machine has been down for weeks and will not even act as card checker. half of the counters it caught where disadvantage players which the casino and the dealers could make money from.
 

bj bob

Well-Known Member
Yea!

Cardcounter said:
The mindplay company has gone bankrupt and working with the system I can see why they went bankrupt. First of all mindplay slows down the game and secondly the machines constanly breakdown and need to be fixed to often. My machine has been down for weeks and will not even act as card checker. half of the counters it caught where disadvantage players which the casino and the dealers could make money from.
Ding dong the wicked witch is DEAD!!!
Next dragon to slay: The ratio 6:5:whip:
 

zengrifter

Banned
The fundamental error in Mindplay is that it is optical-based. Similar RFID-based systems are NOT going away. zg
 

Knox

Well-Known Member
Widespread use of RFID technology could ruin counting. However, can they actually track chips in your pocket? They key here is getting the word out to noncounters also to boycott such places, or big brother will be well on his way to making sure no playable blackjack exists in the future. Seems like that would be bad for the game overall though, look at all the publicity counting has generated over the years...
 

ihate17

Well-Known Member
Mindplay failed immediately because

It never delievered what the greedy and paranoic buyers were told by the salesman.
Pits and eye personel quickly found out that the main purpose of Mindplay was to reduce those jobs. There have been rumors of sabatoge but other problems may have caused pits to just let it self destruct.
Breakdowns and slowdowns: The thing is slow, if it catches an amatuer cardcounter, that counter could never take off the table the amount they missed by not dealing as many hands as they could of.
Reduction of comps: Another main selling point of Mindplay is that it would track the exact amount a player bets. So throw Max Rubin's book away, you will get nothing extra on your bathroom break and less in fact because the game goes slower, but that will save the average player money money.

Most importantly: No one from Alliance Gaming or any of the casinos that bought their sizzle without steak, every considered the player. They just took it for granted that if they put it on the table the players would throw their money at it. Blackjack players, non AP's, do not like strange things on the table, CSM's and Mindplay fall into that category. They are superstitious and feel that somehow the house will use these devices to win more and sometimes they are correct. Also, some players actually figured out that the thing was cutting their comps or knew that their favorite pit who would put them down as a $50 bettor when they usually only bet $25, could no longer do this. So what happened, the players played elsewhere.

The casinos that bought into Mindplay lost, the company that sold it has now lost, and the casinos that picked off the old players from those casinos have won.

Finally, it is not over. The next generation of complete, all knowing, table game systems will soon hit the market. I do not know if they will work or not, but I do know the game between casino and player continues.

ihate17
 
zengrifter said:
The fundamental error in Mindplay is that it is optical-based. Similar RFID-based systems are NOT going away. zg
However RFID cannot count and order the cards in the shoe like Mindplay can.

Besides, being an RFID signal goes into 4*pi steradians it makes it really easy (and fun!) to fake out. Can't wait for an opportunity to try it.
 

weavin42

Well-Known Member
Knox said:
Widespread use of RFID technology could ruin counting. However, can they actually track chips in your pocket? They key here is getting the word out to noncounters also to boycott such places, or big brother will be well on his way to making sure no playable blackjack exists in the future. Seems like that would be bad for the game overall though, look at all the publicity counting has generated over the years...
Maybe you could rat hole chips into one of these bad boys. RFID blocking billfold

I've never heard of these systems before, the place with the best conditions around me is supposed to be getting new tables...hopefully nothing like this!
 

weavin42

Well-Known Member
Automatic Monkey said:
However RFID cannot count and order the cards in the shoe like Mindplay can.

Besides, being an RFID signal goes into 4*pi steradians it makes it really easy (and fun!) to fake out. Can't wait for an opportunity to try it.
Isn't 4*pi steradians just a complete sphere? Anyways, thinkgeek.com also has a RFID experimentation kit...
 

Canceler

Well-Known Member
Automatic Monkey said:
Besides, being an RFID signal goes into 4*pi steradians it makes it really easy (and fun!) to fake out. Can't wait for an opportunity to try it.
You mean like holding a handful of chips against the bottom of the table under your spot?
 

LV Bear

Administrator
Mindplay bankruptcy?

Do you have a link or other specifics about the purported bankruptcy of any of the companies involved with the Mindplay cheating device?
 

ihate17

Well-Known Member
I can not find anything

LVBear584 said:
Do you have a link or other specifics about the purported bankruptcy of any of the companies involved with the Mindplay cheating device?

Good question Bear.
Searched Mindplay 21, Bally and Alliance gaming and could not find anything recent or anything concerning bankruptcy.
Anyway, I do not think Bally is going broke but perhaps they might be killing off the product, but still I found nothing.

ihate17
 

zengrifter

Banned
Automatic Monkey said:
However RFID cannot count and order the cards in the shoe like Mindplay can.

Besides, being an RFID signal goes into 4*pi steradians it makes it really easy (and fun!) to fake out. Can't wait for an opportunity to try it.
RFID CAN count when combined with magnetic-strip embedded playing cards. The system ALREADY exists.

One way to trick the system is to use a powerful electro-magnet or microwave device, in your room, to neutralize some of the RFIDs and render them invisible to the system. Then you could use mostly neutralized chips during +counts. zg
Here's an RFID-ZAPPER made from a cheap camera -

WEAPONS: The RFID zapper

Radio frequency IDs (RFIDs), small electronic chips that share information when scanned, are rapidly becoming an essential part of global supply management. In order to correctly route and track items from inception to purchase, these chips are attached to packaging and increasingly the products themselves.

The intentional disabling of these chips can cause supply chain disruption. The best method is to HERF (high energy radio frequency, usually microwaves) the chips using a small transmitter (read about high power home made microwave weapons for herfing). The German branch (privacy activists) of the global guerrilla innovation network has developed a simple solution (Archive copy) that converts a standard film camera into a short range RFID zapper.

...more - http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/globalguerrillas/2006/01/weapons_the_rfi.html
 

weavin42

Well-Known Member
What happens when the casino sells the cards that are magnetically encoded to count in their gift shop? If they can build a devise to count with the card information why couldn't a player? Yes, I understand it would be using a device other than the human brain and would have legal repercussions. I just think the casino would be too paranoid to allow this and I would think it would greatly increase the cost of cards,equipment and labor. Just look at this article about RFID passports.

Scan This Guy's E-Passport and Watch Your System Crash. (Archive copy)

Just my two cents.

Josh
 
zengrifter said:
RFID CAN count when combined with magnetic-strip embedded playing cards. The system ALREADY exists.
Perhaps it could give you an inventory of all the cards on the table, or maybe even in the shoe. But it couldn't tell you the order of the cards like Mindplay can, as the RFID wavelengths are too long to give that kind of resolution. Furthermore if the RFID tags got damaged in play, it would set off an alarm that cards had been removed from the table. But you can be sure there's a salesman out there someplace trying to convince casinos that RFID playing cards will save their souls and restore their hair.

I can't think of any solid benefit for the casino to put RFID tags in the cards, but I could sure think of a benefit for us! Imagine knowing the count just by standing next to the shoe. Man, I bet you couldn't even do that on mind-expanding drugs! :joker:
 

zengrifter

Banned
Automatic Monkey said:
Perhaps it could give you an inventory of all the cards on the table, or maybe even in the shoe. But it couldn't tell you the order of the cards like Mindplay can, as the RFID wavelengths are too long to give that kind of resolution. Furthermore if the RFID tags got damaged in play, it would set off an alarm that cards had been removed from the table. But you can be sure there's a salesman out there someplace trying to convince casinos that RFID playing cards will save their souls and restore their hair.

I can't think of any solid benefit for the casino to put RFID tags in the cards, but I could sure think of a benefit for us! Imagine knowing the count just by standing next to the shoe. Man, I bet you couldn't even do that on mind-expanding drugs! :joker:
Not the cards - the cards have a magnetic strip.

Sure, on psychedelics, of course. zg
 
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