Minibank rolls why?

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Dopple

Well-Known Member
I do not see the math behind mini bank rolls and stop loss limits. If everything is independent of the previous activity why should it matter? As long as you are in the same mental state with the same casino conditions it should make no difference if you bust into another mini bank roll or exceed either a win or loss stop limit. I my opinion.

I just open this up for comment as it is interesting to me.

If you were have a bad variance for a long time then why not play at the cheapest tables you could fine if you did believe in the continuation of negative variances.

This for comment also.
 
K

Knox

Well-Known Member
The correct formula for how long to play is as short as possible. In addition, the only bad time to stop playing is in a positive count. In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with saying hey, I like this $500 I just won, I am out of here. You lose nothing by doing that if the count is not positive.

Life is much easier when you are winning. It's the losing streaks that make it tricky. I like to play min bets until I see some pattern of winning where I can say "I am playing on house money now, time to attack". Highly unscientific, but I just started it and it's worked so far. OK, I was lucky too.

My deal is I just can't stand to lose, cards or otherwise. Once I get a bigger bankroll perhaps I will change my tune. Many would say my bankroll won't get any bigger with that silly approach, in the near term I'd like to give it a chance an see. Once the Mrs. finally starts paying her credit card bill, I'll have plenty of dinero to play like a robot and follow the book to the letter. Right now I am experimenting a little to see if I can avoid another loss of nearly 200 units on a trip. :eek:
 
EasyRhino

EasyRhino

Well-Known Member
Two reasons I can think of:

1) You don't have the money on you for a larger minibank. In thise case, you have a constricted trip bankroll, and it will take a while to replenish. That's just a cash flow problem.

2) You want to slow down the rate of change (either wins or losses). This is just psychological, and neither good nor bad (as long as you know in your heart that fewer hands played = EV).

And don't stop playing in a positive count.
 
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Kasi

Well-Known Member
davidpom said:
you might find my article about money management for blackjack players useful (and if not, just ignore
Click to expand...
Just wanted to say, dividing your bankroll like you suggest into a series of discrete fixed bankrolls, can actually be very destructive. To take it to more of an extreme, what if I wanted to play 5 sessions a day with $30 in each envelope? Chances are I'd lose it every time in an hour or so.

Better to take the whole $1000 every time when you play - sometimes (like ~50% of the time) when you are 70 or whatever down, you can recover.

If you think I'm not understanding something/missing your point, please let me know.
 
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davidpom

Banned
Trust me, losing $1000 in one hit is a lot more destructive than losing $50 per day over a 20-day period.

In any case, envelope money management is only one part of the equation. You need to read the other stuff I wrote about having a bankroll sufficient to play the game and stake you play at with you... so if your daily bankroll is only $50 as you suggest, then you;d only want to play $1 blackjack. I run the rough rule of thumb that blackjack players should always take 50 x their average blackjack stake with them, to help override deviations.

So, if you play $25 a hand blackjack, you should take $1250 with you. If you play $10 a hand blackjack, take $500 with you.

Money management is handy when on vacation and you want to ensure you'll have cash for Every day of your vacation without blowing it all on day one etc... and it's a handy tool if you don't have good personal discipline.
 
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rollem411

Well-Known Member
davidpom said:
Trust me, losing $1000 in one hit is a lot more destructive than losing $50 per day over a 20-day period.

So, if you play $25 a hand blackjack, you should take $1250 with you. If you play $10 a hand blackjack, take $500 with you.
Click to expand...
You will probably need more than $500 in a session of $10 blackjack tables if you are going to spread your bets. I think its good to bring "backup" money in case you are in a scenario of a maximum bet and need it.
 
Sonny

Sonny

Well-Known Member
davidpom said:
Trust me, losing $1000 in one hit is a lot more destructive than losing $50 per day over a 20-day period.
Click to expand...
Why? Losing $1,000 in a single session is very common for many players. If losing that much money affects you psychologically then you should not be betting that much money in the first place. On your blog you mention how important discipline is and I completely agree with you. If you start playing erratically when you start losing then you need to get control of yourself. That is part of the learning process.

I think the point Kasi was trying to make is that you are much more likely to lose such a small mini-bankroll. You are more likely to lose $50 each day for 20 days than you are to lose the entire $1,000 over the same time. If you use mini-bankrolls then every time you have a small swing you will go broke and have to stop playing. Not only will you miss important advantage opportunities but you will also have trouble getting enough playing time to reach the long run. To make things worse, you will often end up betting your last few dollars only to end up having to split, double down (or both!) or take insurance. If you don’t have any more money then you will have to violate basic strategy, which will cost you money. You will also have to walk away from many positive count since that is when the biggest swings will happen. If that happens every day then you could easily lose your advantage by limiting yourself to a mini-bankroll.

If you use the entire $1,000 each day then you can easily bounce back from any negative swings that you encounter and keep playing with an advantage. You will be able to play more accurately and get more hours at the table, which adds up to more money in your pocket. That is why many serious players try to avoid limiting themselves to mini-bankrolls. What’s the point of having a big bankroll if you aren’t going to use it? :)

-Sonny-
 
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davidpom

Banned
I agree sonny, I never suggested taking a mini-bankroll. I don't myself. I always have a minimum 50 times blackjack bet (or spread bet average if I'm playing more than one box for a period of time), and I typically play green chips and above - so that gives you the info that I've always got a minimum of $1250 with me when I go to the casino, and often $2K - $3K.

The money management ideas were just to help players manage that bankroll(or any sized bankroll) in a way that gives them a chance to walk out winners more often (i.e. actually walking out with the casino's money when they've won it). Not everyone needs that help, I know. But players with poor discipline, or players who tend to over-drink at casinos on the free booze, MIGHT find it helpful. I hope they do. I'm sick of witnessing players who win a grand walk out with nothing 20 mins later because they didn't understand win / loss limits, and basic money management. To a point I don't care because it's not MY money, but ultimately it's nice to see a lot of people WIN in a casino, rather than just the chosen few.

A lot of my blog readers are beginners, and they need that help. I get 2-3 emails a day from readers with their personal gambling questions. some are really simple things, some are more complex. I always do my best to help. I can't guarantee every one will win of course, but I'm happy to do my part to try and steer them in basic principles that will help to maximise their chances.
 
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