My niece spots a dealer cheat

[ihate17]

I have a niece who I consider the best cardcounter I know. She calls me this morning to tell me about a dealer she witnesses in a California casino.

Selectively, this dealer was turning either his first or second card. This bothered her of course so she colored up and just watched the next bunch of hands keying on the dealers eyes. She felt that the dealer was peeking when pulling the cards from the shoe and everytime the dealer had a stiff he turned a 7-10. On one hand the dealer had an 8,3 and turned his second card, the 3.
This is a devistating way to cheat but it is also an obvious one and should be spotted by the pit or eye. Of course, she does not know if someone did catch this and pull the dealer aside but I am posting this here just to let people know that if they see this, they should leave. Now if you see this and you are not an AP or do not mind bringing attention to yourself, you should mention it to the dealer or pit.

ihate17

 

[positiveEV]

Why do dealers cheat? It's not like they were getting commissions on wins.

 

[Canceler]

Why do dealers cheat? It's not like they were getting commissions on wins.

The usual reason given is that if the dealer has been cheating to help a friend, he needs to get the money back somehow.

Other possibilities:

Ever see a dealer that was a bit contemptuous of the players? Some of them think we're idiots for even being there, and maybe some of them don't mind proving their point.

Or maybe they just like to win.

 

[sagefr0g]

I have a niece who I consider the best cardcounter I know. She calls me this morning to tell me about a dealer she witnesses in a California casino.

Selectively, this dealer was turning either his first or second card. This bothered her of course so she colored up and just watched the next bunch of hands keying on the dealers eyes. She felt that the dealer was peeking when pulling the cards from the shoe and everytime the dealer had a stiff he turned a 7-10. On one hand the dealer had an 8,3 and turned his second card, the 3.
This is a devistating way to cheat but it is also an obvious one and should be spotted by the pit or eye. Of course, she does not know if someone did catch this and pull the dealer aside but I am posting this here just to let people know that if they see this, they should leave. Now if you see this and you are not an AP or do not mind bringing attention to yourself, you should mention it to the dealer or pit.

ihate17

i'm not sure i understand what the dealer was up to here.
was he basicly selectively placing his upcard so as to look as if he might have a stiff hand?

 

[Canceler]

i'm not sure i understand what the dealer was up to here.
was he basicly selectively placing his upcard so as to look as if he might have a stiff hand?

He was doing whatever would cause the most damage to the player.

Ever bust against a dealer ten, only to find he had a five in the hole? If you had known, would you have played differently? What if the dealer had his choice of upcard, and chose the ten? Not nice.

With the 8,3 example, would you have a better chance of winning if you were playing against the 8 rather than the 3? (Yes, you would.)

 

[shadroch]

Is there any reason you don't mention the casino,let alone the dealer?
If I'm ever sure that a dealer is cheating,I'd describe him and his house in a heartbeat.

 

[EasyRhino]

Selectively, this dealer was turning either his first or second card.

Once I finally understood this, oh crap, that's ridiculous. It's got to be violating casino policy, and could totally get the dealer in hot water. I would have narc'd on him on general principal.

By the way, was this your niece or your "niece"? Either way, pix plz.

 

[RJT]

Once I finally understood this, oh crap, that's ridiculous. It's got to be violating casino policy, and could totally get the dealer in hot water. I would have narc'd on him on general principal.

It's not just violating casino policy, it's illegal. If the casino was caught by the gaming commision they would be in sever risk of losing their licence if there was any suspicion what-so-ever that they were endoursing this sort of behaviour. If the conclusion was that it was a dealer working by themself, they would be in the same, if not worse situation than any player past posting or using any other cheating technique.
If the dealer was caught by the casino, they would be fired instantly (casinos won't report this sort of thing as it casts them in a very bad light) and they'll find it very difficult to get a job anywhere else.
As it stands this is an absolutely devistating technique, mainly because it is so simple. Even someone who is familiar with the game often won't notice, because it's such a small procedural change and it'll change a game with a 0.4% house advantage (assuming perfect basic strategy play) to a game with 3.2% house advantage (figures taken from Bill Zender's 'How To Detect Casino Cheating at Blackjack').

RJT.

 

[EasyRhino]

I can imagine how I wouldn't notice that unless I was counting. However, when counting, I kind of rely on the dealer's up and hole card being drawn in a reliable manner, so it would stick out like a sore thumb.

 

[SecurityRisk]

I think I found your neice on another board

I was reading a message board at another site, and found a message posted by a woman about the very same thing. She described it almost exactly as you did. I'm sure that's your neice. I'm not sure if I should mention which site.

 

[NDN21]

My neice spots a dealer cheat

I am not trying to nitpick or call any one out though some may feel I am.

If you are trying to warn us that there is cheating going on and are sincere about it, why not just list the dealer's name and the casino?

Why are you telling the forum to be on the lookout for a cheat but then are so general in your description?

You have nothing to lose. The casino can't throw you out of this forum. Matter of fact they won't even know who you are.

Why not just list the name of the dealer and the casino?

 

[ScottH]

I am not trying to nitpick or call any one out though some may feel I am.

If you are trying to warn us that there is cheating going on and are sincere about it, why not just list the dealer's name and the casino?

Why are you telling the forum to be on the lookout for a cheat but then are so general in your description?

You have nothing to lose. The casino can't throw you out of this forum. Matter of fact they won't even know who you are.

Why not just list the name of the dealer and the casino?

Just look out for the cheat, why do you need to know the casino?

 

[ihate17]

Why the casino was not mentioned

As far as the dealer's name, my neice did not tell me his name.
As far as the casino goes, I always try to protect the identity of an AP and mentioning enough hard facts might get her labeled an AP by the casino if they read this and review the tape.

I will tell you this much, it is a California Indian Casino, so forget about oversight by the state.

To whomever mentioned casino procedure, yes even in this casino it is against procedure.

It is a place where dealers keep their own tokes, so obviously he was not going to tips. Either he was doing this to spite players or he was a cheat who had to make up losses from other sessions.

Finally, my neice sometimes posts on a dealer's boards though she is not a dealer but is a casino executive (not in California), besides being an AP

ihate17

 

[Canceler]

Update

She did end up naming the casino on that other message board. Those who used to frequent the old CardCounter.com would find the name familiar, and not totally surprising. :devil:

 

[ihate17]

Yup, she posted it so I will also

It is the Chumash casino. Been there a few times and did not see anything strange and I think this is a case of a rouge dealer in a casino that is making so much money that no one is perhaps really watching him.

Blackjack there is a poor game and I wondered why she would go there but it was a group thing(girl friends and not an AP group). Game is 6D, H-17, no surrender and hard to find decent penetration.

ihate17

 

[SecurityRisk]

From their website:

"Blackjack: Still the most popular of table games, Blackjack is played like it is in the major strip casinos in Las Vegas. We feature a six-deck shoe and liberal in-game rules."

One of these days I would like to find out what a casino's definition of "liberal" is.

 

[EasyRhino]

One of these days I would like to find out what a casino's definition of "liberal" is.

Gay dealers with state-funded healthcare.

 

[shadroch]

From their website:

"Blackjack: Still the most popular of table games, Blackjack is played like it is in the major strip casinos in Las Vegas. We feature a six-deck shoe and liberal in-game rules."

One of these days I would like to find out what a casino's definition of "liberal" is.

Very different from most peoples,if The Vegas Club "Worlds Most Liberal BJ" table is an example.

 

[jetace]

Glad this technique was posted. Always good to know of new things to keep an eye out for. I'm always cautious of non-Nevada or non-AC casinos.

 

[Sonny]

She did end up naming the casino on that other message board. Those who used to frequent the old CardCounter.com would find the name familiar, and not totally surprising. :devil:

Ah yes, I was first introduced to her at the Card Counter's Café, but Eliot’s site was much more social. For some reason I didn’t put those two together, although you’re right, it isn’t surprising.

-Sonny-