Need Advice...Caesar's Indiana

jimpenn

Well-Known Member
I have a trip planned for next week and in Sanford Wong's Blackjack News (August 2006) lists rules for six deck as follows: 14 Tables, .41, 1.8 Cut, $5-10,000, s17, ds. Is this a fair game to play? Does anyone know if they split their cut cards evenly into discard tray or place directly on top prior to shuffling? Any information would be appreciated. I need enough time to cancel trip reservations or continue with trip.

I recently made a trip (last week) to Hammond, IN area and played at the Horseshoe, Resorts and Majestic Star with a $200 lost trip. I made a few critical bad mistakes and learned a lot from the additional table time playing.
First mistake was greed. I was playing a 6D with similar rules as above and was doing very good until greed took over. I was successfully spreading $15-45 at the Horseshoe until I raised my bet to $75 on a few very high counts and that is when the "not welcome" sign fell upon me. They started early shuffling on me and I new it was time to leave. In addition, twice in a row prior to the $75 high spread I successfully insured two blackjacks in a row and you would have thought a convention of suits was at the table area.

Left winning about $500 and went to Resorts...Since it was only a two day trip I broke a rule of not playing 8 deckers because I wanted action and the only good 6D game was in the H/R room with a $50 min. Too high for me. I played the 8D games and was crushed. In 15-18 shoes I only saw +12 unbalanced count twice and it only lasted one round. Lost the $500 plus an additional $300. Left and went to Majestic Star and same 8D losing continued. I couldn't figure out why so many negative shoes until I watched how the dealer shuffled the cards. They (Resors & Majestic) both place the cut cards directly on top of the discards. They did not evenly distribute throughout. I bitched and the dealer told me they used to do it that way, but management changed the procedure. In three hours not one player who had played for at least one hour left a winner. At 9PM the dealer finally distributed the cut cards evenly thru the discard tray prior to shuffling. The entire table won the shoe. He went back to original rule of placing the entire cut cards on top prior to the deal. I continued to bitch. At 11PM his replacement dealer started and first shuffle he distributed evenly. Table had good shoe. He reverted back to placing entire stack on top. At 12:30am I was getting ready to leave for a early flight out of O'Hara when the pit supervisor came by and I asked him about this policy. He told the dealer to distrubute evenly. He stood their and watched. I was playing a mostly steady $15 entry level bet until my chance came that shoe. The count jumped to +16 unbalanced with about one deck to deal and I placed an $600 bet on the table right in front of the supervisor. They thought I was cashing out and I said play it. The dealer busted and I immediately left the table before they had time to gather all the suits and whoever. For the trip I lost $200, but it could have been a lot worse.

Sorry for the long post, but I will never play a six deck again if they clump their cut cards on top of discard rack without spreading. I want to know if anyone if familiar with the policy at Caesar's Iniana. It's about a half hour from Louisville airport.

Thanks for any information.

-J.P]
 

Sonny

Well-Known Member
jimpenn said:
14 Tables, .41, 1.8 Cut, $5-10,000, s17, ds. Is this a fair game to play?
The cut is a little weak and there’s no surrender. It can be beat but it won’t be easy. With 14 tables you should be able to Wong around enough to make a little money.

jimpenn said:
I broke a rule of not playing 8 deckers because I wanted action
That's bad news. You've got to play smarter than that. Playing a bad game isn't going to win you any money, it will only put more money at risk.

jimpenn said:
They (Resors & Majestic) both place the cut cards directly on top of the discards. They did not evenly distribute throughout.
But that’s good news! After all, we don’t want an even distribution of cards. If we did, the count would always hover around zero. We want to see clumps of low cards that will warn us that the low cards are coming.

jimpenn said:
I will never play a six deck again if they clump their cut cards on top of discard rack without spreading.
But that makes it much easier to track! Wouldn’t it be nice to know where all those big cards are going to end up after the shuffle? They’re making it easier for you to get a huge advantage and you’re complaining to the pit boss about it!? :gun: :violin:

-Sonny-
 

jimpenn

Well-Known Member
Thanks Sonny...you make a lot of sense. I don't know how to ST so I never even considered it. But I did learn a lesson. From playing 16 hours and advice about trip from you made me realize how important ST is to a professional "Player."

Appreciate your advice, best

-J.P]
 
They shuffled you up for a $15-$75 spread in a weak 6D game??? Are you sure? You certainly can't make any money with that kind of spread. Where did they start placing the cut card eventually? When they are trying to get you to leave, it's right in the middle of the shoe or worse.
 

jimpenn

Well-Known Member
AM...No, they continued to place the cut card at approx. 70%. One additional detail I forgot to post in last message is that I insured two blackjacks during one shoe and hit them both. This may also have contributed to the early shuffles.
 
jimpenn said:
AM...No, they continued to place the cut card at approx. 70%. One additional detail I forgot to post in last message is that I insured two blackjacks during one shoe and hit them both. This may also have contributed to the early shuffles.
So you say they shuffled before they got to the cut card? That's of questionable legality because by placing the cut card they are advertising one thing and by shuffling early they are delivering something else, and effectively negating the player's cut which does interfere with the randomness of the game. Not sure if this has ever been tested before a gaming board though. Never seen that happen, myself.
 

EasyRhino

Well-Known Member
Was $15 the table minimum? Because 1-3 spread vs a 6D shoe (using an unbalance count?), doesn't sound +EV unless you're wonging.
 

sagefr0g

Well-Known Member
Ceasars Indiana

Jim i played Ceasars a couple of times but it was almost a year ago. i only play nickle tables unless wonging in. i was only able to find two or three nickle tables during the time of day i was playing there. they were six deck s17dasnrsa and at that time no lsr. back then i wasn't so sharp at discriminating between six deck shoes and eight deck. so i can't tell you for sure if Ceasars mixes eight deck and six deck shoes through out their play area. some of the casinos in Indiana have introduced late surrender into their rules but so far i've only seen this for eight deck shoes. there was one double deck pitch game when i was there. i didn't know how to play double deck properly so i didn't pay it much attention to see what the rules were or the penetration. and unfortunately as far as how they shuffled i didn't pick up on that either. i was just to much of a novice at that time. but i would concur with Sonny that you need not be concerned about shuffles for which the undealt cards are just piled up on top of the dicards. it gives you good information and if you get to cut then you can steer those cards where you want them or if you don't get the cut you can watch to see where they end up. i would go back to Ceasars myself if i had the opportunity. i beleive they have beatable games. when i was there i didn't think the penetration was so bad as your report indicated. you should be able to wong in on some of those tables with out too much trouble.
well if you go good luck and let us know how it turns out.

best regards,
mr fr0g :D
 
Last edited:

ScottH

Well-Known Member
Automatic Monkey said:
So you say they shuffled before they got to the cut card? That's of questionable legality because by placing the cut card they are advertising one thing and by shuffling early they are delivering something else, and effectively negating the player's cut which does interfere with the randomness of the game. Not sure if this has ever been tested before a gaming board though. Never seen that happen, myself.
They really aren't negating the player's cut. The player cuts to where they want the shoe to start. It shouldn't affect the randomness of the game.

I'm not sure about the "advertising one thing and delivering another" part though.
 

Cass

Well-Known Member
??

jimpenn said:
AM...No, they continued to place the cut card at approx. 70%. One additional detail I forgot to post in last message is that I insured two blackjacks during one shoe and hit them both. This may also have contributed to the early shuffles.
You insured two blackjacks and hit them both? Where I play its called even money, and almost EVERY ploppie does that. I have a hard time believing you had all that heat with $75 top bet.
 

ScottH

Well-Known Member
Cass said:
You insured two blackjacks and hit them both? Where I play its called even money, and almost EVERY ploppie does that. I have a hard time believing you had all that heat with $75 top bet.
It always feels like you're getting heat when you are a new card counter. I don't know if he is or not, but I am assuming so.

I remember the first few times I was counting. When I finally got to raise my bet I felt like they were all watching me and they knew what I was up to. But soon you realize it's not heat and just get over it.
 

jimpenn

Well-Known Member
Cass, this is no rehearsal. I didn't post to see my words in print. Just curious, how often do you get out into the field and play?
 
Top