Need advice - first time they shuffled up on me

[21forme]

I check into my usual AC house, ask if there are any suite upgrades, which I get about 80% of the time, and they say no, my play didn't meet the criteria. I asy that's odd as I got more comp points last week than any other week. She tells me it's not based on comp points any more, but on "expected loss ratio" for the last session. Hmm, I thought that was odd.

So, I play about 2 hours, break for dinner, and come back after shift change. It was an up and down session, and I'm down a few hundred at this point. Shoe is mediocre and I'm betting one unit. Count goes up and I put down a 6 unit bet. PC runs over and says reshuffle. I don't say anything, but decide to cash out. Guy next to me was a bit vocal saying he can't believe they would make a fuss about a $300 bet like that. At the time I was down about $100 for the night, having been down about $1K at one point.

So, question is what should I do? I have a premium player's card which now has "history" attached. I use it for the comps. Must I play without a card now at this place? Should I stay away for a certain amount of time? Am I overreacting. Overall, I'm up about 30-40K at this place over the last 6 months.

Your comments appreciated. (Maybe that lightning strike was an omen.)

 

[RJT]

Avoid the venue for a while and dump the card. Had it been vegas, i would have said that if they were only shuffling up, they weren't sure, but as it's AC they're onto you.
Leave it 6 months or so before going back (personally i'd wait longer, but i like to spread my play around) and get rid of the card.

RJT.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

I check into my usual AC house, ask if there are any suite upgrades, which I get about 80% of the time, and they say no, my play didn't meet the criteria. I asy that's odd as I got more comp points last week than any other week. She tells me it's not based on comp points any more, but on "expected loss ratio" for the last session. Hmm, I thought that was odd.

So, I play about 2 hours, break for dinner, and come back after shift change. It was an up and down session, and I'm down a few hundred at this point. Shoe is mediocre and I'm betting one unit. Count goes up and I put down a 6 unit bet. PC runs over and says reshuffle. I don't say anything, but decide to cash out. Guy next to me was a bit vocal saying he can't believe they would make a fuss about a $300 bet like that. At the time I was down about $100 for the night, having been down about $1K at one point.

So, question is what should I do? I have a premium player's card which now has "history" attached. I use it for the comps. Must I play without a card now at this place? Should I stay away for a certain amount of time? Am I overreacting. Overall, I'm up about 30-40K at this place over the last 6 months.

Your comments appreciated. (Maybe that lightning strike was an omen.)

If it's where I think it is, your betting level is tiny compared to what they see in there. So they were the ones overreacting.

Overall the comps in AC aren't really worth it, so I would just Wong those shoes heavily and not worry about a player's card. The beauty of that method is you can do it anywhere, you can do it anonymously and just get a room out on the Black Whores or White Whores Turnpikes.

 

[EasyRhino]

I don't really know how it works in AC, but did you get any impression if the floorman was reacting to your identity or to your bet at that moment? Had you previously be betting that much in that session? In that pit? With that PC?

I can imagine that your player's card now has your skill level as "counter", therefore your theos for comp purposes are zero.

What about the idea of simply going back and playing the same way and using your player's card, and seeing what the reaction is? Would that be too dumb?

 

[Mimosine]

What about the idea of simply going back and playing the same way and using your player's card, and seeing what the reaction is? Would that be too dumb?

do you really think that is worth the risk?
wait, they can't bar you in AC.... but i wouldn't want to antagonize the situation or cause them to go beyond "shuffling up." again, not familiar with AC so this may not be applicable.

 

[21forme]

I don't really know how it works in AC, but did you get any impression if the floorman was reacting to your identity or to your bet at that moment? Had you previously be betting that much in that session? In that pit? With that PC?

I played a couple of shoes at that table, flat betting. My first raised bet was when he called for a shuffle. My gut tells me it was from play earlier in the evening that perhaps was questioned by a PC, then confirmed with the raised bet. Or, perhaps my winnings over time hit a threshold where they put a "keep an eye on this one" note in their system.

When the guy next to me starting complaing and asked why, all he said was "upper management decision."

What about the idea of simply going back and playing the same way and using your player's card, and seeing what the reaction is? Would that be too dumb?

Seems like that is asking for trouble, doesn't it?

 

[shadroch]

Why is that asking for trouble?
Your mistake was leaving when you did. You should have stayed, made a couple of stupid cover bets,and laughed at the very idea you were counting.
go back and play sloppy BS for a trip or two,if you are concerned about your comps.

 

[EasyRhino]

Ken Uston wrote about raising his bet at a pitch game in Vegas, the floorman had the dealer shuffle up, and was telling the dealer "any time you see this guy raise his bet..."

... when Uston acted like he noticed the shuffle, and drunkenly doubled his bet.

And the floorman finished "... never mind."

Anyway, with your dilemna, I'm of the understanding that in AC, they can't really do anything about you, right?. It does sort of sound like they have your players account tagged as a counter. My notion of going back and trying again would be to just test the theory, to make sure.

If you've really been tagged, I... I'm a bit skeptical if sloppy play will convince surveillance that you're no longer a threat. Hopefully this isn't one of the nationwide chains. If it's really worth it to you to get back into good graces, then it might be a moderately expensive investment.

But in AC, I guess you have two broad options:

1) If you love comps (assuming you can still get any comps, also worth checking) then you could embark on sort of a downward only counting. Wong in, wong out, bet high off the top, and only lower bets, never raise them. Might be able to get away with that. Of course, serious wonging is hard to do while playing for comps, and the idea of betting big off the top in a 8D game is a little scary.

2) Screw the card and just backcount.

 

[21forme]

Why is that asking for trouble?
Your mistake was leaving when you did. You should have stayed, made a couple of stupid cover bets,and laughed at the very idea you were counting.
go back and play sloppy BS for a trip or two,if you are concerned about your comps.

Yeah, I thought about that. I wasn't sure which way to play it, but my feeling at the time was they must have had me pegged for sure as I've seen plenty of bets going up and down and had never seen a reshuffle called before - especially with a jump from $50 to $300, which isn't much at this place.

Re the comps, while they're nice, they're not very significant in the overall picture. My wife used them more than I did.

 

[21forme]

Just a follow-up note on the original post...

I spent some time in AC earlier this week. First played in some of the other houses. Had a great run at one place. So, figured a trial at the place that shuffled up on me was in order.

I first spent some time (nervously) backcounting and wonging into shoes without using my player's card. After a little while, I thought I'd give the player's card a test. Sat down at a table, gave them my card and no unusual time reading the screen by the PC. Bet conservatively and only increased the bets on a win, when the count warranted it. No heat, no nothing. So, seems like everything is OK, at least for now.

 

[Sonny]

Sat down at a table, gave them my card and no unusual time reading the screen by the PC.

Was it the same PC? If so, you're back in business. If not, try to stay away from the PC that is on to you.

-Sonny-

 

[21forme]

Was it the same PC? If so, you're back in business. If not, try to stay away from the PC that is on to you.

-Sonny-

No, different one. I'm not sure I'd recognize him, but I stayed away from that pit during his shift. I didn't use my card during that shift, either.