Need advice on collecting details @ casino tonight!

[Lonesome Gambler]

Hi there, new poster to the (absolutely fantastic) forum. Anyway:

I'm taking a trip to the Hard Rock Seminole casino in Tampa, FL tonight to meet up with some friends and I want to get some details on the tables to share. I have a couple of obvious newbie questions, so bear with me here. I'm not currently skilled enough to play these games, as the questions will no doubt reveal, but I'm working on it...

1. How do you determine deck penetration? If it's simply looking at where the cut card is in a shoe, then skip to question 2. Is it ever necessary to stand there and watch an entire shoe dealt out in order to determine this?

2. Last week, I was completely baffled by two shoes in the $50 min pit. Some shoes appeared to have 60-75% pen (again, I'm new to this and my estimation skills aren't the most precise), but there were two shoes that had cut cards all the way against the roller. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but could this actually mean that the dealer was offering 100% penetration? Naturally, I find this completely unbelievable, but I checked and double-checked: the cards were touching the roller.

3. Other than that, I plan on recording how many tables were open, the min/max, shoe vs. CSM, pen, and how busy the pit bosses seemed. Is there anything else that would be useful for me to observe?

There's next to no info on Hard Rock conditions over here, so I'll do my best to get the scoop for anyone interested in playing there. Most of the games are garbage, but I'm pretty sure there are a few beatable ones. Thanks in advance!

 

[Sonny]

1. How do you determine deck penetration?

Just watch the dealer when they insert the cut card after shuffling. You can also estimate the size of the cutoffs (cards behind the cut card) when the dealer removes them before the shuffle but it is somewhat less accurate.

...there were two shoes that had cut cards all the way against the roller.

Probably they were using two cut cards. Some casinos put one at the bottom of the shoe so that players can't see the value of the bottom card. They use a second cut card to determine when to shuffle.

There is some info about the BJ conditions in these threads but I don't know if it is still accurate:

http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=12576
http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=10491

-Sonny-

 

[ihate17]

Try some answers

Hi there, new poster to the (absolutely fantastic) forum. Anyway:

I'm taking a trip to the Hard Rock Seminole casino in Tampa, FL tonight to meet up with some friends and I want to get some details on the tables to share. I have a couple of obvious newbie questions, so bear with me here. I'm not currently skilled enough to play these games, as the questions will no doubt reveal, but I'm working on it...

1. How do you determine deck penetration? If it's simply looking at where the cut card is in a shoe, then skip to question 2. Is it ever necessary to stand there and watch an entire shoe dealt out in order to determine this?

2. Last week, I was completely baffled by two shoes in the $50 min pit. Some shoes appeared to have 60-75% pen (again, I'm new to this and my estimation skills aren't the most precise), but there were two shoes that had cut cards all the way against the roller. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but could this actually mean that the dealer was offering 100% penetration? Naturally, I find this completely unbelievable, but I checked and double-checked: the cards were touching the roller.

3. Other than that, I plan on recording how many tables were open, the min/max, shoe vs. CSM, pen, and how busy the pit bosses seemed. Is there anything else that would be useful for me to observe?

There's next to no info on Hard Rock conditions over here, so I'll do my best to get the scoop for anyone interested in playing there. Most of the games are garbage, but I'm pretty sure there are a few beatable ones. Thanks in advance!

I think it is much easier to estimate pen when the cut card is inserted and not while it is in the shoe because the stack in the shoe is always at an angle.
I seriously doubt the dealer offered 100% pen but can remember a time where the dealer forgot to insert the cut card and had to call the pit when she was down to about 15 cards left in the shoe (wish this happened more often). Did you see the end of the shoe?
Do not forget that there is usually 2 color cards one for the cut and the other for the back of the shoe to cover the bottom card. You may have only seen the back card.

ihate17

 

[Lonesome Gambler]

Thanks for the info! I checked those links before, but the tables have definitely changed since then (I've heard a rumor that they even have $5 tables on seriously off-peak hours?). As for the cut card, I was not aware that they sometimes use two cards, but that did occur to me as I was watching the table and I couldn't see a second cut card in the shoe. One of the main reasons for going tonight is so that I can get a definitive look at what's going on there. Unfortunately, I'm not optimistic about improved rules as even the $25 CSM tables are perpetually full on Friday nights, and even sometimes on weeknights, and people throw crazy money on them. I saw a guy throw $600 on one hand on a $25 CSM table. He got lucky, but damn!

Rather than start a new thread, I'll just update that last one about the Tampa Hard Rock if I have anything to add to it.

 

[EasyRhino]

Some shoes have a plastic angled dingus that actually covers up the remainder part of the shoe, so you can't see those cards at all... so that might play a factor. Seeing the cards cut and inserted would clear up what's happening.

 

[moo321]

Some shoes have a plastic angled dingus that actually covers up the remainder part of the shoe, so you can't see those cards at all... so that might play a factor. Seeing the cards cut and inserted would clear up what's happening.

Is dingus the technical term?