Need advice:

[RikaKazak]

Thought I'd post on here my situation and see what you guys thought.

I'm 22, and play online poker for a living. I've known how to count cards for around 4 years now and have had solid success. Thing is online poker is currently getting harder, and I'm starting to like BJ the more and more I play.

Currently my "poker bankroll" is well over $100K and I've bought 5 apartment complexes in the past 2 years so coming up with a solid "BJ bankroll" really isn't an issue ( I can come up with $100K no prob).

However where I live it's very uncommon for people to bet high. Table limits are $5-$500 pretty much everywhere. And if I ever bet more than $200 in a hand it'd draw SERIOUS attention no matter where I played. (unless it's weekend, then I can bet $500 and blend in WAY better)

The 2 things I've thought about doing are 1.) team play, with a partner as a "big drunk player" or 2.) just playing a lot but jumping around casinos a lot (there are 9 within 30 minutes of me)

Say I want to make $10,000 a month minimum off of blackjack. Do you guys see anyway I can do this? Or are the parameters I've given too restrictive that I'll get caught/banned? Is traveling to Vegas/AC really my only options?

Thanks in advance.

 

[bj bob]

My humbe opinion

If you are really confident with your game, given your location. I would suggest sticking with venues on the West Coast ala. Vegas/ Reno. Naturally, you're going to find more variety in Vegas, but there are several good venues in Reno / Tahoe which will handle that action with no problem. Sounds like you'll have to spread the action each month so you don't get too familiar. AC would be a big hassle for several reasons.

 

[RikaKazak]

If you are really confident with your game, given your location. I would suggest sticking with venues on the West Coast ala. Vegas/ Reno. Naturally, you're going to find more variety in Vegas, but there are several good venues in Reno / Tahoe which will handle that action with no problem. Sounds like you'll have to spread the action each month so you don't get too familiar. AC would be a big hassle for several reasons.

thanks for the advice...

what's the max u think I could make a month locally?

$3-$4K a month?

 

[EasyRhino]

Are your local casinos in Idaho, or far northern nevada?

Anyway, if you can push out $500 as you max bets, then you can probably have $100 hour or more as your base EV, if not more (think two hands!). Let's use that as a baseline. The hard part becomes getting enough play in. You'd need 100 hours per month. 25 per week. 5 per weekday. Common advice is to keep your sessions short, 45 min. If we round up to an hour, if you could work out a "circuit" of 5 casinos in a day, then you could appear to be a regular in each.

I dunno, I'm not a professional. I imagine you'd get burned out of places after a while. The good news is that your bankroll could afford you lots of travel.

 

[bluewhale]

let me just point out what you know: its clear that you can easily make money off blackjack. the thing is, you have to make more money on BJ/hr than poker.

now this is not easy considering you're someone who has purchased 5 apartment complexes with your poker winnings. my advice, the only way you can do more damage at poker than BJ is if you get an entire team together, i'm talking 4-5 ppl. otherwise just play the juicy cash games at casinos you've been playing.

 

[RikaKazak]

let me just point out what you know: its clear that you can easily make money off blackjack. the thing is, you have to make more money on BJ/hr than poker.

now this is not easy considering you're someone who has purchased 5 apartment complexes with your poker winnings. my advice, the only way you can do more damage at poker than BJ is if you get an entire team together, i'm talking 4-5 ppl. otherwise just play the juicy cash games at casinos you've been playing.

a.) I play online poker, not live poker

b.) there's NO WAY I can make more per hour at BJ over poker, but that's not why I'm playing it....I'm playing it for a break/hobby/part time work to see how much I can make. It's easy to burn yourself out of poker, and thought hell, if I can make 1/5 of what I do playing poker...I'll do BJ for a while just so I don't go nutso.

When you say $500 bets, are you saying $500-$5,000 or $50-$500...cause $500 is table max bet

so if we say $5-$50 is $16 a hour, $50-$500 is $160...thing is I think I'll get caught cause there are just not that many people that bet $500 a hand. If I did something like $25-$250 I think I might get away with it, but not sure how long.

Any pros out there in a similiar siatuation?

side question: say I do the $25-$250....what do you guys do if say the final hand of the last shoe was making you max bet? do you jsut always leave then? Seems like all this "driving around/leaving/cashing out etc." really has to cut into your hourly.

 

[bluewhale]

a.) I play online poker, not live poker

b.) there's NO WAY I can make more per hour at BJ over poker, but that's not why I'm playing it....I'm playing it for a break/hobby/part time work to see how much I can make. It's easy to burn yourself out of poker, and thought hell, if I can make 1/5 of what I do playing poker...I'll do BJ for a while just so I don't go nutso.

When you say $500 bets, are you saying $500-$5,000 or $50-$500...cause $500 is table max bet

so if we say $5-$50 is $16 a hour, $50-$500 is $160...thing is I think I'll get caught cause there are just not that many people that bet $500 a hand. If I did something like $25-$250 I think I might get away with it, but not sure how long.

Any pros out there in a similiar siatuation?

side question: say I do the $25-$250....what do you guys do if say the final hand of the last shoe was making you max bet? do you jsut always leave then? Seems like all this "driving around/leaving/cashing out etc." really has to cut into your hourly.

okay i see. well still i'd say to try and get a team together. lots of ppl on this site play solo.... but they either bet at the most 15-200 or use techniques that will take more time than you're interested in investing (shuffletracking, cut card).
the honest answer i think is yes. if you just play at local joints going 50-500 or even 25-250, you will get caught eventually. but you can extend that period to a year, or possibly longer by spreading the action but again like you said it will cut into your hourly.
the bottom line i think is that if you want to make serious money at BJ you need to have a team or do more than just count, and preferably both.
if you're just looking for some fun and making 20 bucks an hour like me, i straight count and wong in/out and spread 15-200. but i also get comped meals and stuff so its a pretty fun time.

 

[PokerJunky]

Hey RikaKazak good for you on your poker success. If you don't mind I'm just curious. What do you play? SNG, MTT, cash, type or game, # of hrs/wk, stakes?

thx

 

[EasyRhino]

side question: say I do the $25-$250....what do you guys do if say the final hand of the last shoe was making you max bet? do you jsut always leave then?

You've got a few options.

1) Leave the table (if the shuffle is lengthy, fairly believable)
2) Leave the casino
3) Bet minimum on first round after shuffle (big red flag, I've done it several times)
4) Leave the big bet out for first round after shuffle (generally a decent camo move, but you do pay a little bit for it)

Lately, I've been finding myself with two hands of max bets out at shuffles. I've been compromising and dropping to one hand of max bet. Smaller stakes than you, though.

Speaking of stakes, pick up a copy of Ian Anderson's Burning the Tables in Las Vegas. Seems to be good advice for the $100-$1000 player.

 

[RikaKazak]

Hey RikaKazak good for you on your poker success. If you don't mind I'm just curious. What do you play? SNG, MTT, cash, type or game, # of hrs/wk, stakes?

thx

I play 2/4 to 10/20 NL both 6 max and full ring. My "main game" is probably 3/6 NL full ring.

I don't play SNG much because they're just not worth it imo. Even if I play the 200's and 12 table I'm not going to make that good of a wage, but if I 10 table 3/6 NL on stars full ring (easy to do, especially with all my AHK scripts) making $200+ a hour is super easy to do....the burn out rate is just super high and I've been putting in TONS of hands past 18 months so I can set myself up for life (read: 100K plus hands a month)

Hope that sheds a little light on the situation

I think I'm going to start spreading 25-250 and see where that lands me, worst case is I get barred and just take a video game time off and come back to poker strong.

 

[PokerJunky]

(easy to do, especially with all my AHK scripts)

Could you explain what this means?

I play on Stars also, but mostly SNGs at the $20-$30 level. I'm in the black, but not as much as I would like. I was thinking of playing .5-10 or 1-2 NL to increase my bankroll quicker. How many tables to you play? I limit myself to 2 tables, but that might not be enough. I play 2-5 NL in the live games and have been in the balck the past two years, but by far I'm not happy w/ my results. I'm play solid hands, so my variance is small, but I don't bring home the huge paydays either.

I count to change it up a when in AC and Vegas, so it's not a bad idea that you have. Good luck.

 

[RikaKazak]

Could you explain what this means?

I play on Stars also, but mostly SNGs at the $20-$30 level. I'm in the black, but not as much as I would like. I was thinking of playing .5-10 or 1-2 NL to increase my bankroll quicker. How many tables to you play? I limit myself to 2 tables, but that might not be enough. I play 2-5 NL in the live games and have been in the balck the past two years, but by far I'm not happy w/ my results. I'm play solid hands, so my variance is small, but I don't bring home the huge paydays either.

I count to change it up a when in AC and Vegas, so it's not a bad idea that you have. Good luck.

If you want to talk specifics about poker, hit me up on my forum (ahk all of that, not something I really share with other forums etc.)

As far as tables go, I'm playing 8 as I type this. 2/4 NL on stars, screenname is RikaKazak I hide myself from search cause too many people talk to me when I play etc. but hit me up on my forums, or on msn/AIm and I'd be totally willing to help you out

 

[RikaKazak]

ohh, and as far as SNGs go, I used to beat the $215's on party for a solid ROI

ITM was ~39.5% with 1st at 16%

but those were the good old easy days

 

[Kasi]

Man I just don't get any of this. I don't even know what game he is going to play let alone what bankroll he wants to bet to. I don't think he does either.

So how can anyone give intelligent advice?

 

[RikaKazak]

Man I just don't get any of this. I don't even know what game he is going to play let alone what bankroll he wants to bet to. I don't think he does either.

So how can anyone give intelligent advice?

bankroll = $100K-$200K lets say (my bankroll will never be an issue, the "stakes" the maximum bet the local casinos will let me place will stop my "max bet" before my bankroll ever does) (my total gambling bankroll is larger, just doesn't matter to me much, as long as I'm +EV, I've got the guts to GAMBLE it up)

BJ = for fun part time type thing

Poker = full time job

Real Estate = place to invest my extra money

I know exactly what I want to do, I think everyone is hung up on the fact I play poker. Consider poker my job (just like I was an engineer or soemthing) and BJ I want to be a hobby/source of extra income. I'm curious what is reasonable to expect given an "average" month...with the stipulations of no traveling, and only "small" local casinos (aka max table bet only $500).

Also curious about "how long" it will take them to catch me, given I'm "ok, not great" at camoing my play and I'm "ok" at taking chips off the table and have a buddy cash them out for me weeks later.

Does that all make sense now?

 

[RikaKazak]

I'm not confused at ALL on what I want to do as a "living"...that's poker hands down no question.

I would like to do BJ as a HOBBY though (if I made $5K a month that's hobby income to me right now).

 

[jimbiggs]

If your months go anything like this month is going for me, then expect to lose 40 units per hour in 60% of your sessions.

 

[RikaKazak]

If your months go anything like this month is going for me, then expect to lose 40 units per hour in 60% of your sessions.

ouch, one of those

I've had months where I lost money at poker too, so I know variance all to well

 

[Sonny]

I'm curious what is reasonable to expect given an "average" month...with the stipulations of no traveling, and only "small" local casinos (aka max table bet only $500).

With a $500 max bet you can probably make $50-$100 per hour, but don’t get too excited just yet…

Also curious about "how long" it will take them to catch me, given I'm "ok, not great" at camoing my play and I'm "ok" at taking chips off the table and have a buddy cash them out for me weeks later.

If you are betting the table max (or anything close to it) at a small casino you will not last long. Even a great player will get burned out within a month, and an average player will not last more than a few days (if that long). If you want to earn big money you will need to get into the real casinos, which means lots of travel.

In the meantime you might want to play small stakes at your local casino until your skills are up to speed, then take the show on the road. Trust me, there is plenty that needs to be learned before you should hit the high roller rooms. It could easily take several years of study and practice before you are ready.

-Sonny-