jack.jackson
Well-Known Member
Could someone tell me if we would stand on 12vs2 if two aces were removed from a single deck? I mean would this now be a basic strategy move?
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12 v 2 minus 2 aces, single deck
The best total dependent 2-card play is still to hit 12 v 2. 10-2 v 2 has quite a bit more weight than the other hands and also the greatest EV differential in favor of standing.
You could easily get these from my comp dependent demo program since it is for single deck.
k_c
Code:
Dealer stands on soft 17
10-2 Hit: -23.25% Stand: -28.99%
9-3 Hit: -25.62% Stand: -26.52%
8-4 Hit: -25.24% Stand: -26.39%
7-5 *Hit: -24.55% Stand: -24.28%
6-6 (not split) *Hit: -24.53% Stand: -24.22%
Dealer hits soft 17
10-2 Hit: -23.28% Stand: -28.59%
9-3 Hit: -25.65% Stand: -26.13%
8-4 Hit: -25.25% Stand: -26.09%
7-5 *Hit: -24.57% Stand: -23.89%
6-6 (not split) *Hit: -24.53% Stand: -23.84%The best total dependent 2-card play is still to hit 12 v 2. 10-2 v 2 has quite a bit more weight than the other hands and also the greatest EV differential in favor of standing.
You could easily get these from my comp dependent demo program since it is for single deck.
k_c
jack.jackson
Well-Known Member
OK I just gotta ask lol.
Why with 2 aces removed? U planning on playing with a 50 card deck or something?!
Just because I gotta ask doesn't mean u have to answer lol.
jack.jackson
Well-Known Member
OK you asked:lol
Well aside from me believin that this is the only true blackjack system. Im tryin to use the secondary count not only to bring my BC up to .997, but I believe I can use the secondary count to bring my PE from .68 to .86. I contacted norm in anticipation of purchasing CVdata, In reference of going about this multi-parameter approach, only to be dissappointed by the fact that CVdata doesnt handle multi-parameter indexes.
In regard to your question; Ive only been able to come to the conclusion the both indexes should be added together to form a single one? For example 12vs2 has an index of +12 in the main, and a index of -5 in the secondary.(+12-5=+7) Since aces are worth -4 each in the secondary,two would be worth -8.
Well without going into detail, I was trying to prove my own theory of about how to go about this multi-parameter/secondary approach.
Well aside from me believin that this is the only true blackjack system. Im tryin to use the secondary count not only to bring my BC up to .997, but I believe I can use the secondary count to bring my PE from .68 to .86. I contacted norm in anticipation of purchasing CVdata, In reference of going about this multi-parameter approach, only to be dissappointed by the fact that CVdata doesnt handle multi-parameter indexes.
In regard to your question; Ive only been able to come to the conclusion the both indexes should be added together to form a single one? For example 12vs2 has an index of +12 in the main, and a index of -5 in the secondary.(+12-5=+7) Since aces are worth -4 each in the secondary,two would be worth -8.
Well without going into detail, I was trying to prove my own theory of about how to go about this multi-parameter/secondary approach.
Code:
Primary Secondary
0 -4
2
3
3
4
3
2
0
-1
-4 1
Code:
Hard Totals
HAND 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 T A
17 - - - - - - - - - -17.00
16 -27.00 -30.00 -36.00 -41.00 -40.00 32.00 30.00 13.00 -2.00 9.00
15 -17.00 -21.00 -26.00 -30.00 -35.00 39.00 38.00 24.00 9.00 15
14 -9.00 -12.00 -17.00 -21.00 -26.00 42.00 - 38.00 22.00 24.00
13 -1.00 -3.00 -9.00 -13.00 -18.00 - - - 44.00 38.00
12 12.00 8.00 2.00 -2.00 -7.00 - - - - -
11 -43.00 -44.00 -48.00 - - -28.00 -20.00 -15.00 -13.00 -5.00
10 -36.00 -37.00 -41.00 -49.00 - -21.00 -14.00 -6.00 10.00 9.00
9 2.00 -2.00 -9.00 -17.00 -20.00 12.00 27.00 - - -
8 39.00 27.00 19.00 12.00 9.00 - - - - -
7 - - 40.00 36.00 33.00 - - - - -
Soft Totals
HAND 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 T A
A,9 31.00 25.00 19.00 15.00 13.00 - - - - -
A,8 28.00 15.00 8.00 4.00 0.00 - - - - -
A,7 9.00 2.00 -17.00 -26.00 -31.00 - - - - -
A,7hit - - - - - - -40.00 - - 22.00
A,6 9.00 -1.00 -13.00 -33.00 -38.00 34.00 - - - -
A,6hit - - - - - - - - - -
A,5 35.00 14.00 -2.00 -15.00 -32.00 - - - - -
A,4 38.00 19.00 3.00 -11.00 -17.00 - - - - -
A,3 37.00 20.00 5.00 -6.00 -10.00 - - - - -
A,2 32.00 19.00 7.00 -1.00 -4.00 - - - - -
Pair Splitting
HAND 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 T A
A,A - - - - - -26.00 -23.00 -23.00 -23.00 -17.00
T,T - - - - - - - - - -
9,9 -4.00 -10.00 -15.00 -18.00 -21.00 25.00 -28.00 -29.00 - 37.00
8,8 - - - - - - - - 11.00 0.00
7,7 -42.00 -34.00 - - - - - - - -
6,6 8.00 2.00 -7.00 - - -17.00 -41.00 - - -
5,5 - - - - - - - - - -
4,4 - - - 31.00 27.00 - - - - -
3,3 - 13.00 -4.00 -13.00 -15.00 10.00 -43.00 - - -
2,2 36.00 -3.00 -13.00 -11.00 -16.00 - - - - -
Gordon Variation
Side Count 1 Multiplier Table(A-4/+1)
Hard Totals
HAND 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 T A
17 - - - - - - - - - -6.00
16 -7.00 -7.00 -7.00 -7.00 -10.00 -14.00 -11.00 -10.00 -7.00 -4.00
15 -5.00 -5.00 -5.00 -6.00 -8.00 -8.00 -7.00 -5.00 -4.00 -3.00
14 -5.00 -5.00 -5.00 -5.00 -7.00 -6.00 - -4.00 -3.00 -2.00
13 -4.00 -5.00 -5.00 -5.00 -7.00 - - - -2.00 -2.00
12 -5.00 -5.00 -5.00 -5.00 -7.00 - - - - -
11 -7.00 -7.00 -6.00 - - -10.00 -10.00 -11.00 -8.00 -6.00
10 -2.00 -2.00 -2.00 -2.00 - -3.00 -3.00 -3.00 4.00 0.00
9 -2.00 -2.00 -2.00 -2.00 -4.00 -3.00 -3.00 - - -
8 -3.00 -3.00 -3.00 -3.00 -5.00 - - - - -
7 - - -4.00 -4.00 -7.00 - - - - -
Soft Totals
HAND 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 T A
A,9 -1.00 -1.00 -1.00 -2.00 -3.00 - - - - -
A,8 -1.00 -1.00 -1.00 -1.00 -4.00 - - - - -
A,7 0.00 -1.00 -1.00 -1.00 -5.00 - - - - -
A,7hit - - - - - - -24.00 - - -7.00
A,6 -5.00 -4.00 -4.00 -4.00 -7.00 -6.00 - - - -
A,6hit - - - - - - - - - -
A,5 -11.00 -8.00 -7.00 -8.00 -13.00 - - - - -
A,4 -15.00 -11.00 -10.00 -10.00 -15.00 - - - - -
A,3 -13.00 -11.00 -10.00 -10.00 -14.00 - - - - -
A,2 -10.00 -9.00 -9.00 -9.00 -12.00 - - - - -
Pair Splitting
HAND 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 T A
A,A - - - - - -8.00 -8.00 -8.00 -7.00 -6.00
T,T - - - - - - - - - -
9,9 -1.00 -1.00 -1.00 -2.00 -4.00 17.00 7.00 5.00 - 20.00
8,8 - - - - - - - - -9.00 3.00
7,7 3.00 1.00 - - - - - - - -
6,6 -3.00 -3.00 -4.00 - - -14.00 -9.00 - - -
5,5 - - - - - - - - - -
4,4 - - - -7.00 -14.00 - - - - -
3,3 - -4.00 -4.00 -5.00 -8.00 0.00 0.00 - - -
2,2 0.00 0.00 -1.00 -4.00 -6.00 - - - - -
Gordon VariationCool - I completely forgot about you and your counting systems lol.
Mostly because I know it just ain't in me to keep god knows how many seaparte counts.
Is that what you are working on? Or is it nothing more than a side-count of Aces? I could do that. I think.
How many different cards can u keep track of anyway?
If u want, put it into the simplest of terms for me because, honestly, the little I thought I maybe understood was enough to make me think I could never understand it lol. Like, all I have to do is keep track of the 2's, 3's, 4.s 5.s 6's etc separately, maybe with different count values for each, and I'll have a really good system lol.
Anyway, glad to hear you're not planning on screwing your friends by removing 2 aces from a deck so you can stand on a 7,5 vs 2
jack.jackson
Well-Known Member
Workin on it
Currently yes, Ive been using snyders method by starting the secondary at 50 to eliminate the confusion of negative counts.(can sidecounting make you a superstar)
Perphaps you didnt see the secondary values (A-4/X+1)the tens are obscured unless you scroll down.
Unlike the traditional method of comparing an excess or shortage of sidecounted aces to every 1/4 deck, which is primitive and insufficient, Im using the true method of a 1:4 ratio(A-4/X+1)
Well its one thing to accurately to keep a sidecount of one or more cards, but its a completey different ball of wax to do it effectively and without mistakes...lol
lol... Ive always had a saying that you have to "fathom to fathom" meaning you have to understand to understand..
Sometime we realize that what we thought was true....is in fact, not true at all, and the sooner we accept this, the better of we'll be.
Other times Ill subject myself to the superior of others, by feeling inferior in order to learn something. But once Ive learned it and understood it, Ive just completed the the metamorphisis from student to teacher....lol hmmmm...not bad,not bad.
And while were at it we could memorize the order of the exact shuffle...lol
Does having one up each sleeve exonerate me from this statement? Nice talkin with ya guy
Currently yes, Ive been using snyders method by starting the secondary at 50 to eliminate the confusion of negative counts.(can sidecounting make you a superstar)
Perphaps you didnt see the secondary values (A-4/X+1)the tens are obscured unless you scroll down.
Unlike the traditional method of comparing an excess or shortage of sidecounted aces to every 1/4 deck, which is primitive and insufficient, Im using the true method of a 1:4 ratio(A-4/X+1)
Well its one thing to accurately to keep a sidecount of one or more cards, but its a completey different ball of wax to do it effectively and without mistakes...lol
lol... Ive always had a saying that you have to "fathom to fathom" meaning you have to understand to understand..
Sometime we realize that what we thought was true....is in fact, not true at all, and the sooner we accept this, the better of we'll be.
Other times Ill subject myself to the superior of others, by feeling inferior in order to learn something. But once Ive learned it and understood it, Ive just completed the the metamorphisis from student to teacher....lol hmmmm...not bad,not bad.
And while were at it we could memorize the order of the exact shuffle...lol
Anyway, glad to hear you're not planning on screwing your friends by removing 2 aces from a deck so you can stand on a 7,5 vs 2
Does having one up each sleeve exonerate me from this statement? Nice talkin with ya guy
aslan
Well-Known Member
I would be very careful they don't catch you with two aces up your sleeve! :grin: Seriously, that's too much math for me. Hitting 12 vs 2 is such a marginal play to begin with. I only feel confident hitting it when the count is -10 or less (TC).
Nice talkin with ya guy
Right back at ya lol.
I'll try to understand your stuff better. It just looks likes stuff best approached with a sober mind and that just doesn't happen very often in my world at 2 AM lol.
But, while not even knowing what you're doing, I think I really like what you are doing lol.
Because I think, in your own way, it seems to me, you are exploring the limits of theory vs reality. Am I wrong lol?
So go ahead and implement the best betting count you can and let others figure out if they can do it.
You know, I might be making this up, but when I was 13 I remember reading, at least I think I do, Thorpe's 1962 edition of "Beat the Dealer". (Someone maybe verify for me if such a book even exists). All I remember is an impossible count and division, I think based on only a 1D game, etc. Yet I loved it, while not being able to do it, and couldn't wait to become 21 and do it figuring I had years to learn it. I guess girls came along somewhere in between and that was the end of that for 30 years lol.
I've looked for 40 years for this paperback book I think I remember reading and can't find it so I wonder if it ever existed. I think I remember that green-chip betters were "high-rollers" lol.
Anyway, somehow your stuff reminded me of all that lol.
Seemingly within reach but never getting it. Like Tantalus dieing of thirst in a fresh water lake.
OK - must be later than I think lol.
jack.jackson
Well-Known Member
Well it looks like your doin OK. All your words seem to spelled correctly..lol
A couple weeks ago I made a post on here about half plastered, a couple days later I went to re-read what I had wrote, only to realize just how stupid I sounded. I think I'll stick with the coffee.
I kinda think, most people actually do! I dont what it is but something about power fascinates me.
No your right.But as we speak, Im trying to make that theory become a reality.
I think just about every guy Ive ever met has a story about a female. Fortunately Ive never been married, and never plan to be.
OH, it existed all right! Rumor has it, that the original copy sold out in a matter of a few days. People who didnt know a picnic table from a blackjack table were literally fighting each other at their local book store over the last copy. I bet Zen grifter was there
jack.jackson
Well-Known Member
Tbc
Well I dunno, but today I actually been using the sams Index generator. I copyed the Indexs of three different counts:
1.-42334320-1-3/BC.997/PE./IC.70
2.02334320-1-4/BC.922/PE.68/IC.89
3.+42334320-1-5/BC.75/PE.66/IC.93
Let me first explain that each one of these counts has its own highest efficiency. And only the Ace and tens have different values in each count.
This is why I use the middle count and keep a secondary of (A-4/X+1) So I can get the benefits of all three.
You just add the secondary for one purpose and subtract for another. Another option of course is to count the secondary as (A+4/-1) when counted this way you will be adding and subtract opposite of what you would (A-4/X+1)
.......To be continued
Well I dunno, but today I actually been using the sams Index generator. I copyed the Indexs of three different counts:
1.-42334320-1-3/BC.997/PE./IC.70
2.02334320-1-4/BC.922/PE.68/IC.89
3.+42334320-1-5/BC.75/PE.66/IC.93
Let me first explain that each one of these counts has its own highest efficiency. And only the Ace and tens have different values in each count.
This is why I use the middle count and keep a secondary of (A-4/X+1) So I can get the benefits of all three.
You just add the secondary for one purpose and subtract for another. Another option of course is to count the secondary as (A+4/-1) when counted this way you will be adding and subtract opposite of what you would (A-4/X+1)
.......To be continued